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#1 cayugad

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Posted 30 March 2006 - 01:03 PM

For a long time I have admired the White Rifles. They are a quality made conical shooting, modern inline muzzleloader. I finally broke down and bought the one I wanted. It is a White .504 caliber Model 97 Ultra Mag. The rifle has a Bo Clarke Stainless steel barrel, gray laminate stock, tru glo steel fiber optic sights, bold trigger, three ignition systems, and came with projectiles and a hard case.


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It's very first day out on the range, without touchng the sites, it shot those groups. The bottom group is a 495 White Powerpoint Conical and the top groups are the 460 grain No Excuse Conicals.

This rifle is strange, it shoots best on a dirty barrel. The more fowling, the better it shoots. Loading is very easy, and I shoot the #11 cap as the rifle seems to work so well with it.

Today I just ordered bases, Warne Quick Detachable Rings, and I have not selected the scope yet. I am looking at a Nikon. This should make an excellent conical shooting large game rifle.

I finally got my hands on some Triple Se7en FFFg and most of the White Shooters claim this is the powder of choice for the rifle. I would have shot it yesterday but was busy with another rifle... I will keep you posted as to how well this rifle is working out.
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#2 PA RIDGE RUNNER

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Posted 30 March 2006 - 09:55 PM

My Knight Bighorn is .502 and I too am thinking of trying to shoot it dirty once to see if it likes conicals that way. I hate to hunt with a dirty barrel but it seems that most conicals after I start them slip a little too easy down the barrel.

I also just switched my ignition system over to the #11 cap but haven't shot it yet to see what it does.

I have some of Bill Davis's .501 460 gr lead hulks to try too. Cayugad I am only playing with one gun I don't know how you do it with your gun a month plan you are on.
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#3 cayugad

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Posted 31 March 2006 - 10:09 AM

I tried a number of different conicals that Bill makes. Some are excellent and some would not shoot at all. His maxi ball are really good. I have some .503 440 grain that the only thing I will do with them is remelt them and make some roundball out of them. Also his Minnie's never shot real well. A very impressive looking bullet mind you, just no accuracy.

I think Bill and Judy are way behind in their orders. I was talking to a fellow on line and he said they have had his order for six weeks now. Also you seldom see Bill on line anymore. I guess Bill's idea of a bullet business has come true. He's busy!

I like to shoot conicals on a dirty barrel. I shoot and swab about every four or five shots. I seem to get good accuracy that way. Also I think the #11 cap ignition is the most misunderstood ignition out there. Most think that you need to lots of fire. Well with loose powder a simple #11 cap is all that I find is normally needed.
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, a total wreck with a big smile on your face."

#4 Eric

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Posted 31 March 2006 - 05:37 PM

Cayugad first off I want to say sorry for not posting a reply on BO about your rifle.

I sure hope you get a lifetime of use out of that smoker. B) B)
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#5 cayugad

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Posted 31 March 2006 - 06:35 PM

Eric -

Don't give it a second thought. I was not sure I had even posted about the rifle over there because the site died out on me quite a while back. So I thought I would bring the thread up over here.

I have a lot more conicals on the way to the house to try, and I got my hands on some Triple Se7en 3f so future testing will be most interesting.
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, a total wreck with a big smile on your face."

#6 PA RIDGE RUNNER

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Posted 31 March 2006 - 07:24 PM

Cayugad Don't know if you know it but Eric is my son. We shoot a lot together and both have a knight bighorn. I do have to agree that Bills 370 gr maxi's shoot real well as well as his R.E.A.L. bullets but his maxi hunters just don't group well and fit a little loose in a clean barrel.

Question. Does Bills maxi's engage the rifling at more than the very front band next to the nose in your rifles? I found that the big band at the base is just about bore size for me. I only shoot them with a wad because of this. but they seem to shoot a good group so guess that is what counts.

Sure glad you found us here at this site. I thought that I did not know how to get in touch with you but after you showed up I thought Man! I could just go to NAHC or Modern Muzzleloading and send an email or PM.
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#7 cayugad

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Posted 31 March 2006 - 09:28 PM

Yes, I was aware of Eric's relationship to you.

As for Bill's maxi ball the bottom band is supposed to engage the rifling when the charge is ignited. The front band guides the maxi down the bore. When a conical is fired the conical base actually "squat and expand" somewhat in the bore. This is where they engage the rifling. The wonder wad helps to protect the base of the maxi ball from the heat of the ignition and also helps to stabilize the pressure in the bore for a more uniform trip up the barrel.

The R.E.A.L. conicals which stands for Rifling Engaged At Loading engage the rifling all the way down and sometimes feel like a much tighter fit as they travel down the bore to rest on the powder charge.

The maxi hunter is as far as I'm concerned a waste of lead. I have yet to find a rifle that shoots them well. Sometimes you can get real good short range accuracy with them but the second you get any distance on them they spray all over the target.
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#8 cayugad

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 02:43 PM

A friend stopped over today so of course I had to show off my White Rifle. He then asked how well it shot so we grabbed some powder and went out to the 30 yard station. 90 grains of Goex 3f, vegetable wad, 460 NE, CCI magnum caps.

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I fired four shots right away with out swabbing. I personally can not see the fourth shot, but my friend claims he sees the difference in the hole size plain as day. I did not argue as I was happy with the group.

Then all of a sudden the rifle started to throw them around the general area. At first I was upset, until my friend pointed out to me that the wind adjustment screw was loose. So that might explain the difference in the group.

The one problem again was with the striker. It would slide and set the cap, actually dent it at times, and then the next one would fire it. Checking the breech I might find a small chunk of spent cap. A very frustrating problem.

90 grains of Goex 3f and that 460 No Excuse Conical has a lot of thump to it. Might make a good squirrel load...
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#9 PA RIDGE RUNNER

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 08:22 PM

Man you sure can shoot that white. I have only tried those veg fiber wads once but actually prefer the felt ones. I am in the process of using up some old lube that is like a paste. It seems to work well as a lube but man is it messy. Once this is used up I plan to make up some of yours and try it. I had a little trouble keeping the veg fiber wads flat to the bullet base on loading those messy bullets. The felt wads just seem to mold to both the bore and bullet base and don't come off while trying to get the bullet started.

As soon as I get my traditions ready to shoot again (got to put some sights on it) I want to try those hunter style bullets in it as the bore seems to be real tight in it. That rifle has a 1:20 twist, would that be too fast for conicals?
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#10 cayugad

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 01:08 PM

1-20 twist will shoot conicals. They will also shoot sabots. You will just have to try them out. It should be interesting to see how it shoots.
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#11 cayugad

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Posted 07 April 2006 - 04:10 PM

Well I took the White out again. I wanted to see what tightening the sight did to it. After three shots I had it dead on. It was in the 30's today and very windy. I had the rifle loaded with 90 grains of Goex 3f and a 460 grain No Excuse Conical.

As I was sitting there relaxing, I noticed off to my right about 35 yards away, a small red squirrel sitting on a Balsam stump looking at me. Not wishing to scare him by moving my bench rest, I took an off hand shot at him and was not even sure I hit him until the dog brought back the first piece of him, and then the second piece of him. Direct dead center shot. I was rather pleased. I took a picture of the squirrel but it is not something most people want to look at, so I will not post it.

The rifle shot excellent today, even in the strong winds....
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#12 PA RIDGE RUNNER

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Posted 07 April 2006 - 07:36 PM

So the white drew first blood. Sure sounds like it will do much more of that as time and seasons permit. I will bet that the white is going to be tested at longer yardage if your bench ever thaws out that is.
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#13 cayugad

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Posted 07 April 2006 - 08:50 PM

I wiggled the bench a little today and it is still solid as a rock to the ground. So I will just have to wait. I looked over the yard and decided to built a PVC protable shooting stand that I can set in the woods with targets. I just got my five pack of free targets from Remington and they sure are nice. All you had to pay was shipping.

I was thinking today, if I put that portable stand in front of the trees I want cut, I think it would cut them off for me... :D

I want to cut an all season 100 - 125 yard range this spring. I am going to have to build an elevated trap so that when the snow gets deep it will still be above the snow banks.. then I can shoot right off the front porch of the house in bad weather...
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#14 cayugad

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Posted 08 April 2006 - 04:30 PM

I decided to really accomplish something today. Then of course I was lucky enough to talk myself out of that foolishness.

I did build a new target holder that is taller then the snow banks.. It is made out of 3/4 CPVC pipe. It comes apart real easy, so it is portable. I want to get over to my friends farm and do some long range shooting in the near future so this will come in handy.
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I wanted to see how my new free targets looked on them. Then since I had a new target stand that was taller then one of the snow banks, I decided a person should shoot.

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So I wanted to try the White Ultra Mag with and without the vegetable wads. The circled area is with wads. I don't count the last shot in the bulls eye because I adjusted my POI from a true 6 o'clock hold to a full covered hold...

This was at 50 yards (actually the range finder said 51 yards) with 90 grains of Goex 3f (wads) and a 460 grain No Excuse Conical. I was using #11 CCI Magnum Caps.

My scope and rings should be here monday so I wanted to get some open sight shooting in before all of that arrived.

Overall I was pleased with the way the rifle shot. To be honest, I have a hard time even at 50 yards to see the center of that bull. That's why I put an orange sticker on it and that actually confused my eyes more I think.. because of the red front fiber optic sight...

But just being outside and shooting was fun. The first shot on a clean barrel was the worst of course. Then as the rifle got filthy, it really settled down and started shooting..

I then took out a couple other rifles and new targets to play with them. One was a traditional rifle I just bought. A CVA Stalker Carbine with a 1-32 twist 21" barrel. CVA just worked the trigger pull over for me on it, and the rifle shoots really good. The trigger is real light and no creep. The old style iron sights were easy to use on this new target. I was more then happy with that rifle so far.

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For an inexpensive rifle it really does shoot maxi ball well. This was at the same distance with 80 grains of Goex 2f and a wad...

Edited by cayugad, 08 April 2006 - 04:31 PM.

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, a total wreck with a big smile on your face."

#15 Eric

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Posted 08 April 2006 - 07:24 PM

To be honest, I have a hard time even at 50 yards to see the center of that bull. That's why I put an orange sticker on it and that actually confused my eyes more I think.. because of the red front fiber optic sight...

Cayugad, even though I'm a lot younger than you and PA, I also have the same problem. Somedays it's worse than others but we in PA are not allowed to have scopes on our flintlocks (the regular flintlock season after Christmas). But I can't complain about fiber-optic sights in the woods. I love how it looks on a Deer. B)
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