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let them all rust


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#1 cayugad

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Posted 13 November 2006 - 02:13 PM

I know a constant question to me is, what powder causes rust faster? Or can I shoot this off and leave it overnight without it rusting and not damage my rifle? Well on a different forum another personis doing a rust test using three powders. He did not have any other kinds to test. I checked my supply and came up with a few more choices.. This might answer some of them questions we all have.

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I took the old mower blade to the shop and with a grinder took it back to bare metal. I then took Birchwood Casey Bore Scrubber and wiped the metal clean of all fowling. I then took Birchwood Casey Sheath and protected the metal. I then took isopropyl alcohol and wiped the Sheath off the metal. This would be as exact to the manner in which I treat my rifles before and while hunting.

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I then marked out 14 separate spots on the blade to be tested. The powders were in order 1-14

1= Goex 2f
2= Goex 3f
3= Swiss 2f
4= Swiss 3f
5= Kik 3f
6= Pyrodex RS
7= Pyrodex P
8= Triple Se7en 2f
9= Triple Se7en 3f
10= American Pioneer Powder 3f
11= Black Mag 3
12= Goex 4f
13= metal untreated
14= metal treated with Kroll Oil

It should be pointed out in order not to contaminate any of the testing areas, each area was covered with a specimen cup (lower corner of the picture) so that the flash from the flame next to an area could not drive over. Also the tested were conducted outside where it is 34 degrees, and very damp... just like I hunt in.

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After all the areas were fired, I then took a Q-tip, and moistened it with Kroll Oil and scribed between all test areas ... again, to make sure no contamination for the other powder would effect the rusting properties. In #13 the metal was left bare just to see the effect the damp weather might have played on it. In #14 I wiped that area clean with Kroll Oil so that it would simulate a clean protected barrel in the same environment.

The blade was placed out in my wood working shop which is unheated. It is off the ground in a cool dry space where nothing but the powder's own chemical reactions should effect it. I will check the blade each day to note the condition of the burn marks. Since the powders were ignited at approximately noon, I will use that time frame to recheck.

Any other ideas or comments you would like to try? I have no other kinds of powder around the house.
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, a total wreck with a big smile on your face."

#2 PA RIDGE RUNNER

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Posted 13 November 2006 - 03:03 PM

I presume you are talking of Shiloh's experiment. So far his comment about pyrodex appears to be right on. That pyrodex must leave some nasty stuff. Glad you are undertaking this test with a really good selection of popular powders.

If I recall correctly he did a test with unburned powder by just taping a small quantity to bare metal and leaving it. He did this a couple of years ago and although the metal has rusted somewhat overall the taped powder areas are still not causing any reaction from the unburned powder. I found that noteworthy. Of course a lot of powders are still packed in metal cans, Goex especially. I never saw any reaction to the container. I even found a can of 3f Goex at my father-in-laws in his gun room. It was the very old style can and that powder was just as good as my new stuff. The can was in great condition too.
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#3 Rowdy Yates

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Posted 13 November 2006 - 03:17 PM

If I remember correctly The American Powder commercial on Jim Shockey's program shows a guy shooting his ML with their powder some amazing amount of times with out cleaning. That's incredible to see what your test results are.

Thanks for doing all this and sharing it with us - pretty amazing.
"Keep the sun forever at your back, the wind forever in your face, and may forever God bless you out there on the trail."

#4 cayugad

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Posted 13 November 2006 - 04:40 PM

That's why I did not bother to tape raw powder to the metal. Shiloh said that powder has sat there two years and not a spot of rust under it. I did not feel that part of the test was important. I did want to see what some of the new powders will do. So this might get interesting in a few days.
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, a total wreck with a big smile on your face."

#5 cayugad

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Posted 16 November 2006 - 01:12 PM

Well its the third day of this experiment. I have not really saw anything in any of the samples that would worry me yet. Although it does look like the Pyrodex is starting to change color and the Goex grains are turning white underneath them. This might be the start of something. I wish I had made a second sample of all this and brought it in the house where the heat could effect it...
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, a total wreck with a big smile on your face."

#6 cayugad

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Posted 17 November 2006 - 12:30 PM

Day Four - well there is really no change in any of the samples from yesterday. Still a very slight coloration in the Pyrodex and the Goex is kind of white under the grains, but nothing that would concern me...

this has really surprised me. I really figured I would have rust by now..
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, a total wreck with a big smile on your face."

#7 cayugad

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Posted 18 November 2006 - 07:53 PM

Day 5 still not a drastic change from yesterday. It has to be something to do with the steel being used in the test.. I really would have figured to see some serious rust by now. I might have to look and see if I can find some barrel grade steel.
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, a total wreck with a big smile on your face."

#8 cayugad

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Posted 19 November 2006 - 11:27 AM

Day #6 - Well while most of the samples look all the same, if you note, #6 & #7 are showing some definate orange/brown tint to them. I think I finally got some rust..

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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, a total wreck with a big smile on your face."

#9 cayugad

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Posted 20 November 2006 - 12:01 PM

Day #7 and the pyrodex is getitng a nice color to it, but so far there seems to actual metal damage to it. The other samples are doing fine. The real surprise is the black powders. The way people talked about them, you were almost worried about just shooting the stuff in the morning and then not getting home in time to clean the rifle.. Myth busted there..
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, a total wreck with a big smile on your face."

#10 PA RIDGE RUNNER

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Posted 20 November 2006 - 03:12 PM

Thanks so much for doing this test. I am looking forward to future reports.
If God had a refrigerator would your picture be on it.
Remember the Ark was built by amateurs, the titanic by professionals.

#11 cayugad

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Posted 25 November 2006 - 12:14 PM

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APP & Black Mag 3 look darker to me for some reason. Maybe I've been staring into the wood too long this week.. :D
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#12 cayugad

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 02:45 PM

I moved the blade to a building that is more humid and it really made a difference (also where I store my rifles from time to time hunting). The Pyrodex is rusting and pitting. Goex is rusting and pitting. Black Mag 3 is also pitting and color.. the real puzzle is Swiss and KIK is not rusting like the Goex. Must be something to do with what or how the powder is made.

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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, a total wreck with a big smile on your face."

#13 Rowdy Yates

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 04:41 PM

cayugad test is coming along nicely. I appreciate it and I don't own a muzzy yet. Give me some time and I will. Thanks! :yes:
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#14 cayugad

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Posted 12 December 2006 - 10:21 PM

This post will be the last in reference to the rusting experiment I conducted. I really feel the metal composition of the blade might not have made this a fair and true test, but it is all I had to work with.

Today I noted the following. Triple Se7en 2f & 3f developed a "stain" for lack of a better word. A very dark black in color stain that would not come off with Birchwood Casey #77 Black Powder cleaner. They are not rusted, mind you, but stained and I believe it is a permanent stain.

Goex in all cases, 2f,3f, & 4f all rusted. Surprising, Swiss and KIK did not rust. This was totally unexpected. I seriously figured to see them rust as Goex did. I can not explain why they did not.

Pyrodex RS & P showed the greatest degree of rusting and metal damage over all of all the powders. There is metal damage there.

Black Mag 3 which I suspected might be stained or rusting was not. The simple cleaner took the powder residue off and removed the coloration that I saw at the one point. It cleaned up perfect. APP never showed any sign of anything in all this time.

As for the degree of cleaning needed to take the metal back to bare, some of the samples really needed to be scrubbed on. Especially the black powders.

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over all it was an interesting test, but as I said.. an actual barrel would be a far better judge of the powders abilities and corrosive properties. I want to thank all of you that offered suggestions and comments to make this a better test. It made it actually fun to see what results were going to occur. Perhaps down the road I will get my hands on a rifle or get tired of one I have and test some more. Until that time.. clean your rifles and then you have nothing to worry about...

*** a note. Could the stains that people notice in the barrels near the breech be something that Triple Se7en powder might have caused? There is no damage, but that is one stubborn stain. Just a though to explain some of the posts that commented in that direction.
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, a total wreck with a big smile on your face."

#15 PA RIDGE RUNNER

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Posted 13 December 2006 - 12:31 PM

Many thanks Cayugad for not only doing the test but for sharing the results you da man.
If God had a refrigerator would your picture be on it.
Remember the Ark was built by amateurs, the titanic by professionals.




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