Target Stabilizer Question
Posted 22 January 2007 - 08:14 PM
I'm looking at the IBO Hunter Release Class, to open up options on stabilization. But, there are so many options and types. What exactly should I be looking for in a stabilizer? How do you determine length? V-bars and balancers? Any recommendations on maybe a systematic approach to this problem? Looks like the setup will be a CJ sight (maybe the new one) with third axis, Mathews fall away rest on a Mathews Conquest III, mini-max cam system.
When I get it all set up I'll post pics.
Also - considering a back tention release - any recommendations there? My neighbor bought one of those "chocolate" releases and proceeded to punch himself in the mouth :clap: :ok:
Posted 22 January 2007 - 11:52 PM
Now that I have been brutally honest, I'll attempt to share what little I know on the subject in an attempt to help you cut a few corners, if nothing else.
First, the gear you buy will be largely determined by the class you will shoot. You say you are looking at MBR. Well, here's what it says (as if you haven't already read it).
So, basically, you have a little sight and peep issue and everything else is wide open. Most I know are shooting something along the lines of a Copper John Pro III or Spot-Hogg Hogg-It. No single (or multiple) pin adjustable "slide sights" are allowed for MBR. So, you're already there. Since you can not run a scope lens, basically any peep will do as well (no clarifier/verifier needed).
BOWHUNTER RELEASE (MBR)
A compound, recurve, or longbow shot with no restriction on stabilizers or style of release. A sight shall have fixed pin, cross hair, or circle style pins without a lens or magnification. If circle style pins are used, all circles must be the same size. Sights may not be adjusted after entering the shooting course. Note rule change page 5, C-6, concerning peep sights. MBR archers will shoot from the green stake.
So, on the subject of stabilization.
Extremely generically speaking, a rigid, light and long stabilizer with weight out on the very tip farthest from the bow will reduce a bows ability to turn, torque or move when held at full draw. (Read up on "moment of inertia" if you are really inclined to know why.) For indoor shooting, I, personally, run a 30" carbon rod stabilizer with 3 - 1.5 ounce stack weights on the end. This combination came about for two reasons. Number one, I found that for me and my bow a stabilizer 26" or longer made the biggest difference in how hard it was to move the bow at full draw. Ultimately, the 30" length was decided on because, frankly, it was the length that I could comfortably rest the tip of the stabilizer on my shoe while keeping a relaxed hand on the bow grip to rest between shots. The amount of weight used on the end was trial and error. I just happened to find the best stabilization for me with close to 5 ounces in weight. Now, since you will mostly be shooting outdoors the thought process there is a little different. Most shooters will sacrifice some stability for a more nimble bow. There is no telling what you may run into on a 3D course and there may be times when a 30" stabilizer is just in the way. Even wind catching the side of such a large stabilizer can make it nearly impossible to hold steady without torquing the bow. So, it seems most folks are running something in the 24" range at the longest.
As to V-bars and offsets, they are used primarily to balance the bow, but also to add mass weight for those looking for a certain mass weight to holding draw weight ratio. (Some serious archers have found that they get their best performance when they strike a certain balance between the holding draw weight of their bow and the actual mass weight of the bow itself... Another topic entirely.) You're main concern is the weight of your sight, and to some extent your arrow rest, on the right side of the bow (for right handed shooters). Those items will tend to make the bow cant to the right at full draw. Enter the offset bar. An offset bar is basically a single-sided V-bar or "kicker" designed to counter the excess weight of your sight and rest. (So, on a right handed bow the offset bar will be on the left side.) It seems most 3D shooters opt for the offset bar. (Again in keeping with a more "basic" approach to stabilization and a more nimble outfit.) V-bars, as their name implies, split out to both sides of the bow and allow for weights to be added to both ends/sides of the bow. This allows a person to add a good amount of weight to the bow as close the handle as possible for balance (pretty handy if you have a lot of weight on the end of your stabilizer) and still add a little more to the left side (for right handed shooters) to counter the sight/rest weight on the right side of the bow. So, how do you know how much weight to add? Personally, I take my bow with everything on it and hang it by the top cam or wheel from a string. (Heavy monofilament fishing line works well as it's slippery and won't catch or bind on the bow giving you a false reading.) I will then add stack weights to the end(s) of the V-bar or single offset bar until the bow is no longer canting/leaning to the right side when viewed from behind. (You can run a plumb line down the string to get it exact if you wish.) All told, you should end up with a bow that balances so well at full draw that the sight level rarely budges.
If you're still a bit puzzled, look around for inspiration. Here's a typical Burley Hall 3D set-up...
Notice the "short" stabilizer. He's also running a V-bar with a pretty radical downward angle. (Getting the weighted ends as low on the bow as he can to help with canting/balance.)
The end result of your stabilization efforts should be a well balanced bow that holds a lot more steadily on target than it did before you began. Ultimately, tinkering around with lengths and weights are the only way to find maximum steadiness. As for what products to look for, I personally shoot Easton A/C/E stabilizers. They work well and they are relatively affordable. Cartel may be cheaper, but they're made in Korea if that matters to you. Doinker... Well, Doinker makes awesome stuff. But, you will likely spend as much for a stabilizer/V-bar set as you just spent for the used Conquest 3.
Have fun spending & playing! :D
Posted 23 January 2007 - 06:31 AM
Thanks Jer - you are the archery MAN!
Posted 23 January 2007 - 03:34 PM
Their website is a bit of a mess. (I've seen n00b webpages with better navigation, to be frank.) But, here is the link anyway. http://www.specialtyarch.com/stabilizer.htm
If you manage to find your way around to the home page they also have a link to their online store so you can get a feel for pricing.
Posted 23 January 2007 - 05:26 PM
Posted 23 January 2007 - 06:12 PM
Anyway, George Ryals IV (alias "GRIV" on the Net) is a pro shooter. (Formerly Martin, now Hoyt... Also a Stanislawski/Copper John boy.) He happens to be one of a few people I would classify as an all out archery genius. You may want to check out the following article on his own website... Shot Stabilization. (I believe you have to register for an account there and log in to view the topic.) It explains, in detail, the mass bow weight to holding draw weight ratio I mentioned earlier as well as stabilization in general. Some of it may be more than you want to get into at this time. But, I think it explains things well.
Posted 24 January 2007 - 08:23 PM
I also learned about using dark nocks and vanes to keep from providing the next shooter an aiming point.
I'm gonna go check out that site Jer - Thanks!
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