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Smoke Broadheads


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#1 Rowdy Yates

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 08:44 AM

http://www.smokebroadheads.com/

I haven't seen this one before and it looks like it ought to work. It may have designed a better broadhead and solved some of the other mechanical expandable broadheads issues.

Anyone else see one first hand? :huh:

Edited by Rowdy Yates, 02 May 2007 - 08:53 AM.

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#2 Jeremiah

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 12:38 PM

Heavy DeJa Vu

It looks just like a Puckett's Bloodtrailer to me.
Those frequently rank top 5 on "Worst Broadheads of All Time" lists. (Heck, I Googled them just for old time's sake. They're still being bashed on AT.com. :lol: )

Don't know... Hopefully for the games' sake it's better this time around.

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#3 Rowdy Yates

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Posted 03 May 2007 - 10:53 AM

Heavy DeJa Vu

It looks just like a Puckett's Bloodtrailer to me.
Those frequently rank top 5 on "Worst Broadheads of All Time" lists. (Heck, I Googled them just for old time's sake. They're still being bashed on AT.com. :lol: )

Don't know... Hopefully for the games' sake it's better this time around.

Thanks Jeremiah for the information. It looked like a new design to me.

I guess I haven't been around enough - never new there was a "worst broadhead of all time" nor a Puckett Bloodtrailer broadhead. I guess I need to get around a bit more.
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#4 Jeremiah

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Posted 03 May 2007 - 09:40 PM

I wish I had a picture, but it was basically the same design. The tip was a spring loaded "button" which when pressed (supposedly upon impact) would deploy the blades which were hidden in the body. Because the tip was spring loaded, however, as soon as pressure was taken off the tip the blades would go back into the body of the broadhead. Unfortunately, soft flesh didn't always provide enough resistance against the tip to keep the blades deployed as the arrow was passing through a given animal. The Blood Trailer also had issues with performing poorly if they contacted bone. (But, then again, so do a lot of heads.)

It's just one of those designs that hit the scene a good while ago that was never copied for a reason. I never thought I would see it come back around. It appears as though this "new" design doesn't use a spring loaded tip, rather just a single press which locks the blades open. It's probably a better way to go about it. But, time will tell the tale.

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#5 Rowdy Yates

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Posted 04 May 2007 - 08:28 AM

After your take on this broadhead and I do appreciate you sharing that bit of history --- sounds like a revival of the Puckett design ----- that I'm not going to using it. :no:



I have confidence in the NAP Spitfire XP Pro and the Rage when it comes to mechanicals and I have no reason to switch.
Again that's why I like this board - good facts behind the reasoning, thanks Jeremiah. ;)
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#6 Leo

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Posted 04 May 2007 - 07:18 PM

I remember the Puckett heads. They were illegal in Alabama when they came out. Shortly after mechanicals were legalized the Pucketts disappeared.

The Smoke broadheads have an achilles heel that may seriously keep this head from ever taking off in popularity.

Directly from their own website.

IMPORTANT: Smoke Broadhead will not deploy in foam or hard practice targets; practice target must simulate hide for deployment.


This is a killer. I know a lot of bowhunters who won't use a mechanical that fails to open on a target. Maybe it does in fact open on an animal everytime. But how you gonna be sure? Maybe put some leather on the face of the target? I don't know. I sympathize with this new company :( I fear they are gonna have a tough time :(
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#7 Jeremiah

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Posted 04 May 2007 - 10:46 PM

I remember the Puckett heads. They were illegal in Alabama when they came out. Shortly after mechanicals were legalized the Pucketts disappeared.

The Smoke broadheads have an achilles heel that may seriously keep this head from ever taking off in popularity.

Directly from their own website.
This is a killer. I know a lot of bowhunters who won't use a mechanical that fails to open on a target. Maybe it does in fact open on an animal everytime. But how you gonna be sure? Maybe put some leather on the face of the target? I don't know. I sympathize with this new company :( I fear they are gonna have a tough time :(


Rut roh Reorge...

So, it's still sort of the same problem as before. Of course, my question now becomes, "If these won't deploy in foam, what about soft/thin hide animals like pronghorn?"

I hate to give anything a thumbs down out of the gate, without even trying it myself first, but this thing has had me scratching my head since I first saw it.

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#8 McBruce

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Posted 05 May 2007 - 08:09 AM

I agree Jer, its rough to say no go without ever actually seeing one, and shooting one.

I personaly am not a huge fan of Mec heads simple because of Murphys law...if it can go wrong it will go wrong.... its one of the reasons I like the G5 montecs. one solid hunk of metal. I know there are locking systems that hold fix blades in place.... just a good feeling to know something isn't going to fail when you need it to preform. ( or at least limit the risk )
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#9 BrettF

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Posted 01 March 2008 - 03:09 PM

Just wanted to clarify some of the comments above. The design of the Smoke Broadhead is nothing like the Puckett Bloodtrailer. It does not use a round cylindrical plunger pushing the rear of the blades down over hinge pins. The Smoke is activated by having a frontal body push down on the cammed front end of the blades which forces them out of the blade windows. The springs then drop behind the blades; therefore, locking them open.

The reason the Smoke Broadhead will not go off in cardboard/foam types of targets is because the surface area of cardboard/foam is not hydrated and does not flex. It has a rigid surface area which disallows the puckering/pliancy of the target which is needed for the Smoke Broadhead to deploy and lock open. This pliancy allows the Smoke Broadhead to create front end load for deployment as it is pushing through the hide into the pliable body mass before it deploys and enters the target. In other words,there is a reaction time that is required. A rigid surface will disallow the give in the target that allow the blades to lock open. The blades will open; however, they will not reach the locking position; and therefore, will close before they have a chance to lock. That slight amount of pliancy in the animal's hide enables this.


This will work in a pronghorn but for smaller game such as fox, turkeys, etc., I have in production the Smoke "Tommy Knocker" Turkey Tip. This is a wider and flatter tip that screws on to the end of the Smoke ferrule and was produced to address specific results of the testing I have done.

Thank you for the feedback. If you have any other concerns, let me know.


#10 Leo

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Posted 01 March 2008 - 04:26 PM

Just wanted to clarify some of the comments above. The design of the Smoke Broadhead is nothing like the Puckett Bloodtrailer. It does not use a round cylindrical plunger pushing the rear of the blades down over hinge pins. The Smoke is activated by having a frontal body push down on the cammed front end of the blades which forces them out of the blade windows. The springs then drop behind the blades; therefore, locking them open.

The reason the Smoke Broadhead will not go off in cardboard/foam types of targets is because the surface area of cardboard/foam is not hydrated and does not flex. It has a rigid surface area which disallows the puckering/pliancy of the target which is needed for the Smoke Broadhead to deploy and lock open. This pliancy allows the Smoke Broadhead to create front end load for deployment as it is pushing through the hide into the pliable body mass before it deploys and enters the target. In other words,there is a reaction time that is required. A rigid surface will disallow the give in the target that allow the blades to lock open. The blades will open; however, they will not reach the locking position; and therefore, will close before they have a chance to lock. That slight amount of pliancy in the animal's hide enables this.


This will work in a pronghorn but for smaller game such as fox, turkeys, etc., I have in production the Smoke "Tommy Knocker" Turkey Tip. This is a wider and flatter tip that screws on to the end of the Smoke ferrule and was produced to address specific results of the testing I have done.

Thank you for the feedback. If you have any other concerns, let me know.


Welcome to Huntingresource. Please understand that I actually believe the broadheads will work. The fly in the ointment remains the target issue. Something has gotta be done about that or Smoke is just gonna get blamed for the Broadhead "failing" versus the hunter making a bad hit. I hate to say it but the truth is many hunters are quick to blame anything but themselves over a lost animal.

I really wish this were not so but ignorance and denial kills products.
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#11 BrettF

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Posted 01 March 2008 - 04:38 PM

We understand this and we are hoping to overcome it. Because we have done so much testing, we know how well it performs and it always opens in animals. In addition, the accuracy is exactly like a field tip. We appreciate your feedback.

#12 Jeremiah

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Posted 01 March 2008 - 06:52 PM

So, basically, I am gathering that heavy target density (or lack of "pliability" etc.) is an "enemy" of the Smoke Broadhead blade deployment/locking mechanism? That's fair enough... Most game animals are indeed not like a target. How does this issue come into play in the real world on, say, the gristle plate of a wild boar?

I realize that the cam action/mechanism of the blades may not be identical to that of a Puckett. (I would hope not.) Certainly, blades that lock open is not along the line of a Bloodtrailer. However, does not blade deployment still begin with depressing the tip of the broadhead on impact? Honestly, that is/was my place of concern, not the specifics of how or in what direction the blades deploy (or even if they "lock" open or not once deployed).

Again, I'm not into "bashing" a product... especially without having used it first. But, I think my concerns are "common" ones. By all means, I welcome you here, Brett. I thank you for taking the time to address some issues. (Maybe we will all learn something new.) If you stick around and like what you see, perhaps you would consider sending a "field test" to one of our writers for a review in the articles section. (Just a thought.)

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#13 BrettF

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Posted 02 March 2008 - 10:52 AM

Have you had a chance to look at the smokebroadheads.com website? You will see a testimonial with a picture of a 160 lb. boar that was shot with the Smoke. The blades deployed properly opened upon impact. This shot was a 25 yd. heart shot with a complete passthrough and the hog went 25 yds. before expiring in 8 degree weather.


As you can see on my website, I have been hunting for 37 years. The reason the Smoke is different from the bloodtrailer or any other broadhead, I was not satisfied with the flight of fixed blade broadheads and the performance of the mechanical broadheads. Although I did shoot a 6X6 bull elk through the throat at 70 yds. with a Forestline Punchcutter, I still felt that something better could be created.

I tried to create a broadhead that would fly from the bow to the target exactly like a field point and explode into a fixed blade broadhead upon contact with the animal. To address the people that always blame the broadhead first, which you and I know are many, I have added the backcut on this broadhead to still work with a marginal shot. It cuts its way all the way back out of the animal.


You mentioned about testing these. Please send me the name and address of the person that would do the testing.

Thanks.

Brett

#14 Leo

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Posted 02 March 2008 - 01:56 PM

Since the Tip on these heads is a screw on deal. I suspect screwing on a plain blunt tip for use on etha-foam targets might get the "pliancy" action you are looking for.

Use that tip to see that the head opens every time in practice and change to the sharp one for game. You could call that the "small game" point and suggest that's what you should use on targets.

Just a suggestion.
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#15 BrettF

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Posted 02 March 2008 - 02:17 PM

Thanks Leo. You are correct. Actually, it opens in targets with our turkey tip head.

More often than not, the cutting tip will deploy; however, in order to avoid the complaints about the times that it doesn't, I wanted to dissuade people from practicing with it. Also, because of the way the blades lock open and with the backcut, when people pull it out of the target, it could gather target material behind the blades and then it would need to be taken apart to be cleaned. No big deal but people would complain about this.

We chose to suggest that people remove the blades which weigh 25 grains and insert the 25 grain bushing for practice all year long. They then would remove the bushing and reinstall the blades to go hunting.

Thanks again Leo. We always appreciate knowledgeable feedback.

Since the Tip on these heads is a screw on deal. I suspect screwing on a plain blunt tip for use on etha-foam targets might get the "pliancy" action you are looking for.

Use that tip to see that the head opens every time in practice and change to the sharp one for game. You could call that the "small game" point and suggest that's what you should use on targets.

Just a suggestion.






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