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Interesting Tid Bit On Arrows


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#1 McBruce

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 11:41 PM

I've been wanting to try the CE Maxiam arrows for a while... I even went and sold off a doz brand new un cut Gold tip shafts so that I wouldnt feel so bad for changing and having all these extra arrows around.

Well heres the story. I put a set of Pro Strings on my bow. New site, new rest, new grip...did a complete change up AND switched from Gold tip 55/75 xt's to CE Max. 350/s ( per the charts this is the arrow I should be shooting. )

The CE's have blazer vanes ( something new for me to try ) and really were some sweet looking arrows.
started shooting and went hmmmm I must really be out of practice, they aren't grouping well. Well with everything I did....its going to take time to tweek and get it right. Well all the tweeking in the world and I'm only getting 6 or 7 inch groups at 30 yards ( this is NOT acceptable )

Ok maybe its because I'm shooting broad heads and have the blazers.... hmm I'm trying to come up with anything that could be causing me to not be able to group tight.
I'm use to getting tighter groups then this at 60 yards.

So the other night I'm chatting with Jer and telling him what is going on and trying to bounce some ideas off of him and he says....your spine is to stiff.
( I have a short draw length ) so I have short arrows and he says CE;s are stiffer then the Gold tips.

NOW back when I was shooting GOLD TIPS Leo informed me to back my draw weight down as I had to soft of a spine and above 67 lbs I was opening up groups. So I'm at 67 lb and I'm throwing logs out there.

Im sure its the new rest/string/ something...and Jer says go pull out some GOLD TIPS and see how they shoot before you do anything. But he says, I'm gussing its your arrows and that if you go to a 250 instead of a 350 you'll be just fine.

Keep in mind I am currently 2 1/2 weeks away from going on a bear hunting trip. I dont have a lot of time to play with a set up.

So I pull out my last 4 shootable gold tips and 4 of my new CE's and I'm doing 7 inch groups with the CE's and arrows almost touching with the Gold Tips. ( all at 30 yards )

So I now need to get some Gold Tips built before I leave and make sure I have some good shooting arrows.

I'm going to play around when I get back with heavier tips, up the draw weight and such. and possible half a doz of the 250s and see how they shoot.

But for now...I'm back to the old Gold Tips and hopefully a 2nd bear rug :)

When your getting new arrows...see if you can get your hands on some first to try out i've pulled out what is left of the little hair I have trying to figure otu what was wrong and it simply was the arrows. ( not bad arrows ) just wrong ones for what I'm shooting ...guess the charts aren't always correct either :)

Thanks Jer
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#2 Rowdy Yates

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Posted 13 May 2007 - 09:43 AM

Bruce I was seeing the same thing with my arrows for 55/70 and I was drawing 69# so I bought 350 spine CE maximas and they grouped great at 69 # draw weight and 100 grain heads. Try bumping your draw weight up a couple of lbs first with the 350 CE and I think you'll see the mystical flight of the arrow come into tighter groups.

Or just go with the gold tips - nothing wrong with something that works ;) Just my .02. I sure want to see you bring home that rug. :D
"Keep the sun forever at your back, the wind forever in your face, and may forever God bless you out there on the trail."

#3 McBruce

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Posted 13 May 2007 - 11:53 AM

you might want to make sure you shave before the trip ;)

LOL

That was the other thing(s) jer and I talkd about. bumping up the draw weight and also putting a 125 gr head on it.

will try it and see....but 90% of it is that warm fuzzy feeling that you know what your shooting and its going to hit where yo uwant. if you loose faith in your stuff....you beat yourself before you ever start.

Good to see your back from Vacation Mark :) was starting to wonder if you opened an AC division in New Mexico :)
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#4 Leo

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Posted 13 May 2007 - 01:17 PM

My gut tells me that merely going to 125 grain heads on the new arrows will magically fix the problem ;)
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#5 Jeremiah

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Posted 13 May 2007 - 03:28 PM

I basically went through the same thing. Fortunately for me, due to where I work, I got to play extensively before making a decision. I tried everything including point weight adjustments, poundage adjustments and the like. But, the Maxima 350 would never shoot or tune right out of my bow. However, going down to a 250, totally "wrong" according to the spine chart, made the difference.

The CX Maxima simply seems to be an extremely stiff arrow. My bow specs were 30" @ 64# (29" arrow). There is no way a 250 should shoot for anything out of it. But, that's just been the case out of every Mathews hunting bow I have tuned with them. I do not believe their cams are as hard as most.

Now, put some 125's into the Maximas and see if they group better. (I don't believe it will solve the problem.) If they do group better, however, you have a definite direction to move in.

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#6 McBruce

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Posted 14 May 2007 - 10:09 PM

Well I'm rolling the dice on some 250's placed the order, should have them tomorrow evening. I'll know soon enough :) if they do the trick.
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#7 Rowdy Yates

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Posted 15 May 2007 - 07:37 AM

Bruce I'll be curious what you find out going to the 250 spines. I haven't lowered my poundage yet and I'm guessing Jeremiah is right about the cams being not so hard on Mathews bows for categorizing and tuning arrows so I'll be interested in what you find out. Good luck

TEE MINUS 17 DAYS AND COUNTING. ;)
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#8 Leo

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Posted 15 May 2007 - 08:56 AM

By themselves just the blazers will bump your equivalent draw weight for the charts about 2 pounds. (unless you have wraps which can nullify this effect) Likewise just the switch to 125s bumps it two pounds as well.

However their effect combined is not additive. Since the CE maxima is a pretty light arrow at 8.2 gr/in the effect on spine of using both Blazers and 125s could be markedly more than you expect.

Increases in FOC drop effective spine exponentially not linearly.
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#9 McBruce

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Posted 15 May 2007 - 03:39 PM

Yesterday I called Western Archery in Poncha Springs and asked how long it would take to set up half doz CX Maxima 250's. Told them what I wanted, the length and such...Stan said we should have them ready tomorrow.
Soooo tomorrow ( being today now ) I had to make a run into Salida and get tires put on my truck, on the way home stopped in and sure enough they had my arrows done and ready to go...

The Results :) A picture speaks 1000 words.
Jer you were dead on correct.

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I put some 100gr montec G5's practice heads on ....shot 4 rounds of 5 arrows....
tweeked the sights and made a few adjustements

This is the 5th round.

shots are at 30 yards.

from a 7 inch group to"this" by going from a 350 to a 250. yep we have a winner.

Edited by McBruce, 15 May 2007 - 03:42 PM.

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#10 Rowdy Yates

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Posted 15 May 2007 - 03:54 PM

:blink: :blink: :hmm: :hmm: Looking good! I'm happy you struck gold Bruce :yahoo: Confidence at 30 and most likely the shot will be less than 25 to that monster bruin you'll be bringing home. ;)
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#11 Leo

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Posted 15 May 2007 - 04:11 PM

I'm dying to know if you tried 125s on the 350s ???

It might be interesting.
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#12 McBruce

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Posted 15 May 2007 - 04:38 PM

not yet leo but I plan to.

I don't have any 125 gr heads around, but will pick some up and give it a try.

would love to save the 350's for use if the 125 does it...would be great.
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#13 Rowdy Yates

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Posted 16 May 2007 - 11:36 AM

I also have some question about the collared nocks that come with the CE maximas being on flush. Anybody else question them? I found after shooting them for awhile they aren't flush and need to be worked with to help grouping tighten up.
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#14 Jeremiah

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Posted 16 May 2007 - 01:06 PM

I also have some question about the collared nocks that come with the CX Maximas being on flush. Anybody else question them? I found after shooting them for awhile they aren't flush and need to be worked with to help grouping tighten up.


I shoot a fall away rest for hunting. I've shot the Maximas with and without the collar just for testing and by itself I've noticed no difference in grouping. So, at least in that context, it doesn't matter that the Bulldog Collar fits over the arrow. If, however, I were shooting something other than a fall away or whisker biscuit rest (say, a fixed prong rest) I would not use the Bulldog Collars. CX makes a pin nock that sits flush/tapered in the arrow that I would use. Or, I would go back to my old pre-collar method of gluing an Easton A/C/C 3-60 uni-bushing into the arrow and then running an Easton G-nock inside of that. I've had too many carbon arrows crack at the nock end from simply shooting them into a target when using a press-fit nock and nothing else.

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#15 Rowdy Yates

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Posted 16 May 2007 - 02:54 PM

I shoot a fall away rest for hunting. I've shot the Maximas with and without the collar just for testing and by itself I've noticed no difference in grouping. So, at least in that context, it doesn't matter that the Bulldog Collar fits over the arrow. If, however, I were shooting something other than a fall away or whisker biscuit rest (say, a fixed prong rest) I would not use the Bulldog Collars. CX makes a pin nock that sits flush/tapered in the arrow that I would use. Or, I would go back to my old pre-collar method of gluing an Easton A/C/C 3-60 uni-bushing into the arrow and then running an Easton G-nock inside of that. I've had too many carbon arrows crack at the nock end from simply shooting them into a target when using a press-fit nock and nothing else.

Thank You Jeremiah for responding.
Maybe it's just mine that did it on Maxima hunter 350. I'm shooting a fall away rest too, Rip Cord, and I get good fletching clearance with it and I'm using Blazer 2" vanes with short arrow wraps and the wrap do touch the bulldog collar. Bruce's sharing of his difficulties has made me look at my setup at the results I'm having. My draw is 28" and my arrows are 28" and I'm shooting 100 gr. Hellrazor heads (similar design to the montec). I found 6 out of 12 Maxima hunters 350 to be what I call a flyer not grouping on target like the other six were. And I'm thinking the 69# draw weight might be on the cusp of the lower range of spine for those arrows. But I also notice the nocks were backed off and I tapped the bulldog collar back solid and then slid the nock in tight. I did some good but not a total correction to the grouping issue. I have used the pin nocks for my gold tips and really like the way they fit and function. I might go to a lesser spined shaft and see what I get as well instead of increasing my poundage. And I don't have the 125 grain heads either to test.
"Keep the sun forever at your back, the wind forever in your face, and may forever God bless you out there on the trail."




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