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Interesting Tid Bit On Arrows


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#16 Jeremiah

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Posted 16 May 2007 - 04:13 PM

Thank You Jeremiah for responding.
Maybe it's just mine that did it on Maxima hunter 350. I'm shooting a fall away rest too, Rip Cord, and I get good fletching clearance with it and I'm using Blazer 2" vanes with short arrow wraps and the wrap do touch the bulldog collar. Bruce's sharing of his difficulties has made me look at my setup at the results I'm having. My draw is 28" and my arrows are 28" and I'm shooting 100 gr. Hellrazor heads (similar design to the montec). I found 6 out of 12 Maxima hunters 350 to be what I call a flyer not grouping on target like the other six were. And I'm thinking the 69# draw weight might be on the cusp of the lower range of spine for those arrows. But I also notice the nocks were backed off and I tapped the bulldog collar back solid and then slid the nock in tight. I did some good but not a total correction to the grouping issue. I have used the pin nocks for my gold tips and really like the way they fit and function. I might go to a lesser spined shaft and see what I get as well instead of increasing my poundage. And I don't have the 125 grain heads either to test.


Though many people are unaware, the instructions that come with Maximas state that Bulldog Collars should be glued onto the arrows if used. (Then allow the glue to dry and install the nock press-fit with no glue, of course.) The reason Maximas do not come with the collars already glued on out of the package is in case one chooses to cut from both ends of the arrow when preparing or not to use the collars at all.

Both of you owe it to yourself to buy a pack of 125 grn field points and see what happens with the 350s. In my case(s) it has not been enough. But, you may be more fortunate. Of course, in this day and age, a half dozen broadheads can cost as much as a half dozen arrows. So, regardless of the outcome of such testing at this point it may still be a tough call.

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#17 Rowdy Yates

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Posted 18 May 2007 - 09:46 AM

Not to swipe this posting but I went home put my broadheads on some all carbon Blackhawk Vapor Pros 4000 shafts. They rate them for a 55 to 70 pound bow for a 28Ē length shaft. I'm drawing 69# on my Mathews. Itís a lesser spine than the 350 spine and equal to the 250 spine of the Carbon Express Maxima shafts and I was throwing strikes and finding home plate with all six at 30 and then 40 yards. I used the Blackhawk Vapor Pro 4000 last September on the bear hunt and I was shooting 67# then. Gold Tip arrows make the Blackhawk line now and I like their quality and price. They weigh a bit more than the CE shafts. Nothing bad I can say about the 350 spine CE Maxima Hunters just that we canít dance worth a darn.

Another lesson gained on Hunting Resource dot com.

Edited by Rowdy Yates, 21 May 2007 - 03:10 PM.

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#18 McBruce

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 08:27 PM

Well the order was placed, I guess if your gonna do it just do it. ordered a set of G5 Montec 125's suppose to be here on the 24th so I can see if they make the 350s dead on. if sooo....maybe uping the lbs and shooting those at some over sized gophers in about a week and a half :)
if not...the 250's and some 100 grs will do ;)
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#19 McBruce

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Posted 25 May 2007 - 09:05 AM

ok less then a week to leave for he hunt and as of now I'll be shooting the 250's and the bow set at 66 lbs

I got the 125's and put them on 3 arrows and took some shots as the bow is currently set up...
:no: :no: :no: it wasn't good. actually missed the entire target on one shot. ( note I was shooting at the middle row right hand spot and it glanced off the right hand side of the target ) HOWEVER... 6 inch groups at 30 yards isn't going to cut it. So on have a turn sets I started taking the lbs up. Things started getting a bit better and tighter..and finaly at maxed lbs ( around 72 lbs ) the groups came in and were almost touching. I ended up pulling one arrow because it kept being the flyer. The one that just no matter what wouldnt group.

Now by elk season....I might feel ok with pulling and holding 72 lbs. and will consider adjusting the set up to shoot the 350's.

however for this hunt, I'll leave my lbs a bit lower ( 67 lbs ) where I normaly shoot and use the 250's with 100 gr heads. I'm hitting 1 1/2 inch groups ( 3 arrows ) on that...and that is where confidence is at.

I'll keep playing with the set up following the trip.
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#20 Rowdy Yates

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Posted 25 May 2007 - 09:41 AM

ok less then a week to leave for he hunt and as of now I'll be shooting the 250's and the bow set at 66 lbs

I got the 125's and put them on 3 arrows and took some shots as the bow is currently set up...
:no: :no: :no: it wasn't good. actually missed the entire target on one shot. ( note I was shooting at the middle row right hand spot and it glanced off the right hand side of the target ) HOWEVER... 6 inch groups at 30 yards isn't going to cut it. So on have a turn sets I started taking the lbs up. Things started getting a bit better and tighter..and finaly at maxed lbs ( around 72 lbs ) the groups came in and were almost touching. I ended up pulling one arrow because it kept being the flyer. The one that just no matter what wouldnt group.

Now by elk season....I might feel ok with pulling and holding 72 lbs. and will consider adjusting the set up to shoot the 350's.

however for this hunt, I'll leave my lbs a bit lower ( 67 lbs ) where I normaly shoot and use the 250's with 100 gr heads. I'm hitting 1 1/2 inch groups ( 3 arrows ) on that...and that is where confidence is at.

I'll keep playing with the set up following the trip.


Very Very interesting tid bits Bruce. I gained from your posting on this one and I'm glad you did cause I thought my experience with grouping were all in my form or shooting at a greater poundage and faster bow this year. I would not have expected the spine issue looking at the CE shaft charts. Thanks!

Edited by Rowdy Yates, 25 May 2007 - 09:44 AM.

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#21 McBruce

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Posted 25 May 2007 - 10:22 AM

I think Jer and Leo hit it.

its a combination of mathews having a softer single cam then other companies that have single cam's
a short draw length ( I'm way below the average draw length ) thus its a very short arrow.

put those together and the charts are off.

thankfully Jer knew to go with 250s before I left on the trip :)
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#22 Jeremiah

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Posted 25 May 2007 - 11:18 AM

I think Jer and Leo hit it.

its a combination of mathews having a softer single cam then other companies that have single cam's
a short draw length ( I'm way below the average draw length ) thus its a very short arrow.

put those together and the charts are off.

thankfully Jer knew to go with 250s before I left on the trip :)


If you look on the back of a foam CX chart (looks like a BIG mouse pad... your dealer or Sportsman's Warehouse type store should have one), they actually give you some calculations to make based on your specific set-up that will give you the best choice in spine. (It basically states the chart is generalized... Duh!) When I used that, it still didn't put me into a 250. But, it did bring me closer to it.

Look, truthfully, even my OnTarget software says 250 is a little too weak for my bow. All I know is this has worked on every Mathews bow I've set-up with Maxima arrows in the length/poundage ranges we're talking. (In my case, I'm long... But, I just don't pull the poundage anymore due to my joints.) I've done the leg work on this one and just know what works in the real world in this case. :)

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#23 Leo

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Posted 26 May 2007 - 10:03 AM

Sounds like you're just finding the sweet spot at 72lbs. I didn't know how long your arrows were or I might could have calculated what it needed to be. However, that would still be just a rough estimate. Considering the difference in spine values between 250 and 350 I'm not surprised you ended up over 70lbs. Since you're maxed out at 72lbs. Removing the string silencers and instead using an SDS can give you a little more juice if you need it.

Where these heavier tipped, heavier arrows will really start to shine is at around 40yds. It's not just about energy retention. The more favorable balance and higher inertia will make these arrows much more stable for quite a bit further. When you finally get it right, expect your long range groups to improve.

I'd be real suspicious the "flyer" has an unevenly faced insert or nock seat. That's where G5s ASD really pays for itself by repairing "flyer" arrows.
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