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946 Yard Elk Kill


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#16 Leo

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Posted 21 July 2007 - 04:20 PM

I completely disagree Leo and I do not want to make a mountain from a mole hill...I understand that we hunters need to stick together.

Had he used his best skills, He would have recognized the fact that these elk were bedded and not in any big hurry to go anywhere. In such a state, He could have moved to a more realistic shooting postion for a humane kill (one where the risk of wounding this animal could have been greatly dimenished). He choose not to! He walked in three shots. As a skilled shooter, he could have finished the job with one! Again, he choose not to! You have to admit this thing could have truly gone bad in a hurry-luckily it did not. Why take such chances when they're not necessary? If this guy was trying to prove he could shoot that distance, then he should have gone to a range. IMO, you cannot compare this act to shooting targets ( inanimate objects) or sniping emeny soldiers (capable of shooting back). To me, that's not fair! If he wanted to be persistant, the range is the perfect place for it! Sorry, I just have too much respect for wildlife...skilled or unskilled.


I believe I have been misunderstood! I thought it was blatantly obvious this guy's best skill WAS NOT woodsmanship. Is he guilty of overestimating his other abilities? I think that's obvious as well.

I stand by my belief that limiting by some legal means how far one can shoot can only hurt hunting. It's a can of worms that shouldn't be opened. Yes, there needs to be respect and care, but we would be better served policing that ourselves versus getting new laws passed.
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#17 Phil

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Posted 21 July 2007 - 05:52 PM

Good shooting for paper....don't think to highly of it on a game animal. Here in our area you'll see small groups on the mountian with long range guns set up with spotting scopes in deer and bear seasons. They use a lot of Wildcat stuff like 6mm bullets in necked down 300 Win.mag cartridges. I know a hunter who shoots out to 1800 yds with marker stakes every 200 yds from 1000 yds on out....just isn't my type of hunting :no: , nor will it be. This Elk hunter made a poor decision.
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#18 iamyourhuckleberry

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Posted 21 July 2007 - 07:57 PM

Agreed Leo. I too think we should police ourselves. I believe stories such as this provide the text for the lesson books. I can only hope that young impressionable hunters ( Eric for example) heed the advise of us old war ponies. I believe the stories, such as those given to us by Spirithawk, leave their mark. We must take great pride in what we do. In addition, we must provide care and proficiency...with the utmost respect...regardless of the weapon.

:peace: :wub:
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#19 mudduck

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Posted 23 July 2007 - 10:00 AM

I think it comes down to a choice of do you let your shooting abilities determine the maximum range of the shot, or do you use your hunting abilities to determine the minimum range of a shot. I suppose at some point they could become one in the same.

#20 bonecollector34

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Posted 23 July 2007 - 01:02 PM

Mudduck you confused me on that one. BTW that is not hard to do. I spent 20 minutes looking for my car keys this morning then another 10 trying to find my shoes..

I am hopeless :(

Fatty


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#21 mudduck

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Posted 23 July 2007 - 02:19 PM

Marty, I guess I was looking at it from the standpoint, lets say the hunter was a legit 1000 yd shooter, practiced a lot, does he then "only" try to get to that 1000yd mark before using his superb shooting ability, or does he take what he knows about hunting/stalking and try to close the distance for a shorter shot? As for sometimes being one and the same, lets say one practiced with a bow out to 70yds under ideal conditions, one is at the edge of the tree line and 70yds out in a meadow stands a Bull elk,broadside and no wind, ideal conditions. You can't stalk closer because of no cover and he is right at your maximum yardage. Its as close as you can get, and as far as you are willing to shoot. For the guy in the story, if 946 yds was as close as he could get, then fine, but if he could have used available cover to close the distance to 700 or 500 or 437 yds, then why not do it when you are going to have to walk up there anyway to retrieve your dead animal, and perhaps avoid shooting it twice in the butt :lol: All in all though, it was his tag to fill and his choice on how to fill it. Glad it worked out for him.

#22 Larry $

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 12:16 PM

In my opinion, these kind of proficient and well practiced shooters are few and far between in the hunting hills. I believe the vast majority of "shot lobbers" are just ignorant slob hunters who have a fantasy of being snipers while in actuallity they are lucky to hit a pie plate at 25 paces with an open choke shotgun. I have personally herd a number of good ole boys say things like, "Zero in? What are you talking about? Them "bleep bleep" bullets is way too "bleep bleep" expensive for that kind of nonsense!"

Charles has a great (or actually frightening) story of this mentality in some bow "hunters" in Oregon a few years ago. These kind of slobs won't be educated, they won't be convinced of their poor shooting abilities and they won't change their ways. Same for poachers, trespassers, ATV abusers, etc.

My problem isn't so much with this guy taking a selfish, ego stroking shot... it's with the majority of doofuses out there who just start burning powder or loosing arrows and hoping to hit something and then going on to their next victim instead of tracking any lucky blood trail. Remember the photo of the 3-legged elk that McBruce posted a few weeks back? Anything could have done it, but I have seen so many limping and wounded elk in the past few years that my bet is on a lazy, ignorant slob who simply opened up on him with his fingers crossed. Heck, some buddies and I came across a father and son last winter who were gutting two elk and as we continued on we came across 3 other blood trails in the middle of a stampede trail. The pair had opened up on a grazing herd of cow elk across a valley with Browning autos and then nabbed the first two that fell closest to the road. Yes, we reported them and yes, the DOW investigated.

Point is - we can talk about education and setting an example and preach sermons on ethics in forum posts, but the slobs are with us and always will be and they have no intentions of changing anything. Do YOUR best to be an ethical hunter, respect the animals you hunt and teach those ethics to the newbies you introduce to the sport. Especially the kids.
Elk: it's what's for dinner!

#23 iamyourhuckleberry

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 03:43 PM

A small prayer before one takes to the feild:


Clean Kill or No Kill, Lord

0 Lord, I am a hunter
And life I seek to take
But let me not attempt the shot
Beyond my skill to make
For Lord they are your creatures
Given for our use
But each one falls within your sight
They're not for our abuse
And when I loose my arrow
Please guide it swift and true
Or let it miss completely, Lord
That pain be not undue
A clean kill or no kill, Lord
Such is my heart's desire
Give me the skill to make it so
Or let me hold my fire
And when my time upon this earth
The days they are fulfilled
Grant that I may die at least
As clean as those I killed

Timothy D. Cook
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#24 Phil

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 05:48 PM

That's an awesome prayer Will !
Bet a copy of it goes up in our camp.
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#25 Rowdy Yates

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Posted 25 July 2007 - 02:46 PM

That's an awesome prayer Will !
Bet a copy of it goes up in our camp.

I agree Phil - definitley one of the best I've read. Thanks Will. One to live by for sure. ;)
"Keep the sun forever at your back, the wind forever in your face, and may forever God bless you out there on the trail."

#26 Bob LeBlanc

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Posted 26 July 2007 - 12:16 PM

Now THAT is some shooting!!


It may be shooting...it sure ain't hunting!!

Just because it can be done, doesn't mean it should be done.
Unethical and irresponsible are two words that immediately come to mind. Slob hunter and Anti fodder are a coupl'a more. :angry:

Then there's gross indecency...moron...numbskull...idiot...egoist...

If all these guys want to do is shoot...go to the range.
Target practice on one of God's creatures, which is exactly what this is, is dispicable.
I wonder how many they wound and don't recover over the course of a year? Quite sad, really, when you think about it!

Bob :( :angry:

#27 bonecollector34

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Posted 26 July 2007 - 08:25 PM

I decided to recant my new post. Sorry
Fatty

Edited by bonecollector34, 26 July 2007 - 08:47 PM.


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#28 silvertip-co

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Posted 27 July 2007 - 09:15 PM

Just found out there's a new Reverend in Gillette WY doing 1000 and 2000 yrd shots on prairie dogs with his Remington XP handgun and some good handloads. I hope to meet him when we go to WY to check things out up there. Not sure if he's into big game hunting. The target may be too large. 2000yrds, wow. Handgun, wow.

He sounds ethical.



Elmer Keith killed an elk at 545 yrds with an early Model 29 Smith & Wesson with open sights.

To show it wasn't a fluke, the next day he did it again...

Edited by silvertip-co, 27 July 2007 - 09:18 PM.

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#29 Bob LeBlanc

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Posted 28 July 2007 - 06:06 AM

...And you think solely because he is a Reverend that he is ethical?...Obviously not !

To all the young hunters out there...

The modern hunter is a person whom respects his (her) quarry.
Learn the fine points of tracking, woodsmanship, and the traits of the game you pursue...and be practiced with the weapon you hunt, so that when the shot is presented, you cleanly, quickly, and as humanely as possible, harvest the game...THEN you will be a hunter.

Lobbing lead, or arrows, at ridiculous ranges is certainly not respectful of the game animal, nor does it require the skills of woodsmanship. If you do so choose, be sure your tracking skills are exceptional, because you WILL be tracking crippled animals...more often than not...and many will be left to suffer and die, either lost, or unknowingly hit.

I am a hunter.
I can shoot, I can track, I can move through the forest in stealth...and I recognize and understand the traits / habits of the animals I pursue...and I believe it is my God Given responsibility to respect those animals at all turns.

Gut shooting an elk at 964 yards, even if it is ONLY a cow, is horse-puckey. The fact that he got it, means he is a good shot...The fact that he tried it, means he is a slob.

Bob

#30 PA RIDGE RUNNER

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Posted 28 July 2007 - 06:21 AM

The point that I was trying to make is that there are a few and I mean a few people out there that possess the skills and equipment to shoot accurately much farther than what I consider ethical in a hunting situation. Would I take a shot at an extreme distance? Absolutely not, my perfect shot with a rifle is to shoot and run up to stamp out the burning hide. Happiness is powder burns. I have shot enough in about 60 years of shooting to know my abilities and for the most part live within those abilities.

When I read the original post I saw this was not a short ranger like me trying to lob a ramdom bullet at an extreme range. Those guys knew a thing or two about long range shooting and calculated the shot before taking the first one. The guy missed the first shot but only by about a foot. A foot miss at that distance is less than an inch at 100 yds.

All this does not mean that I am going to try this anytime soon or even ever but I do recognize that out there there are people who have abilities that far exceed mine. For example a man by the name of Howard Hill back in the early 1900s using a stick bow made shots at animals that I even then considered unethical until I read about his abilities.

We all are free to express our feelings but remember no matter what we say they are only our own personal opinions and if we are inclined to out of hand condemn someone elses actions remember to let the one without sin cast the first stone or in this case bullet.
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