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Can't Hit A Buck With My Tikka


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#16 Spirithawk

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 11:17 AM

Woody, knowing you as I do, I'm giving you some advice the other's haven't thought of yet. OPEN YOUR EYES! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

#17 QueenNorth

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 11:50 AM

Norm, what a great reply! Woody and I both laughed, good advice! :D
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#18 Leo

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 04:27 PM

Maybe your arms are too short! ;)
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#19 PA RIDGE RUNNER

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 05:49 PM

Leo I don't think that is Woodys problem I have seen pics of him and his arms reach all the way to his hands. Lol
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#20 Woody

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 07:57 PM

Looks like I opened a can of
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and Monk likes to :stir: and you all are having fun with it and so am I. The :evil: made me do this eh! :lol:

p.s Seriously thanks for all your input and useful information. I actually did learn something!
Keep having fun though eh!
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#21 RobertR

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Posted 24 December 2007 - 07:30 PM

You can go through all of the ballistic hoopla but what it boils down to is we tend to over shoot by thinking the animal is further than we think. I seen this happen this year more than once with people who sight there gun to shoot high at 100 yards. Ok 1, 2 and even three inches high at a 100 yards. They see an animal and say it's 300 yards and automatically hold higher than they need to and over shoot then the second shot if you get one thinking you hit low because you missed is higher yet. Anything from 400 yards and under aim mid ship and you will hit the vital area. Me I will sight my 270 dead on 0 at 100 yards for the prime reason if I get a close quarters shot in the timber say 50 yards or even less I know I have less chance of hitting a branch. If I have to shoot beyond 300 yards I bracket the game with my duplex and if it's at 400 yards I use the bottom of the duplex. We all miss and some times at greater distances shooting without any kind of a rest a guy can miss very easy because the slightest bobble is greatly exagerated the further away the target is. I never held over the elk I shot this year 180 plus yards I held where I wanted to hit.
Woody my friend force your self to shoot lower.
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#22 Troy

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Posted 23 January 2008 - 08:32 PM

Greetings from the Northwest,

This is my first post though I have been reading the postings for a while. This seemed like a good posting to comment on.
Heres a short intro.
I hunt mainly in the upper elevations of the Cascade mountians of Washington. Mule deer, elk, yotes, bear, grouse, etc. This area tends to be longer distance shooting.
Not wanting to be the ballistic nazi or a long range elitest, let me preface by saying that this is an FYI so if you already know the info. please don't be offended. Just diregard.

Regarding the accuracy problem. Tikka has guaranteed a one minute of angle accuracy out of the box with factory ammo. I have shot several and own two. I have found this to be true to my knowledge. Most likely it is the shooter and not the firearm. It should be noted that the flight path of any bullet is a parabolic curve. That being, the further away the distance from the barrel the more drop or steeper the angle of flight. The most common miss for hunter usually has less to do with distance and more to do with angle. If you ask the average hunter (even those who have hunted for a million years) he will usually tell you that you hold over higher over for uphill shots and hold lower for downhill shots. This is NOT correct.
The factors for calculating the drop of a bullet at certain distance are muzzle velocity, ballistic coefficient and projectile weight. Most every shooter knows these but they also need to take into account gravity. It is not easy to explain in short but I will give it a try. Gravity works only horizontally. If you are shooting uphill or downhill, though your line of site to target is say two hundred yards, your horizontal plane of distance is shorter depending on your angle. Less gravitational pull, less drop. So you would aim lower than you normally would hold over at any given distance on both uphill and downhill shots. The steeper the angle, the lower you hold over. The further your target, the more the math applies. The most common miss in hunting is the uphill shot.
That said, though all of the comments regarding bullet weight, windage, muzzle velocity, twist and bullet type apply to making the shot, you will still miss without putting them all together and factoring the "ballistic hoopla."

Here is my personal philosophy. If are not into the math of shooting you should at a minimum know what your accurate muzzle velocity is for your round. (the box is not accurate) With the M.V. and the ballistic coefficient (specific bullets website) you can zero your gun to a distance that aiming at the center of the kill zone, you will hit somewhere within it to a certain distance. Know that distance and don't take a shot past it. JBM ballistics has a site that will calculate the that distance for you if you have the MV and coefficient. If you don't know you will make the kill shot you shouldn't take the shot. However, I am a little twisted in that I almost enjoy the math as the meat. Experience...Not to brag but I have taken 33 larger game animals from 300 meters to 760 meters and have never (knock on wood) taken a second shot. The math works.

I hope this helps.
Troy

#23 PA RIDGE RUNNER

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Posted 23 January 2008 - 10:10 PM

Welcome Troy and thanks for the great info. I am from PA and have very limited opportunities to shoot any distance. I am a modern rifle shooter, a muzzleloader shooter for deer and get all excited about turkey hunting.
A couple of years ago I went to a 1000 yd competition and was absolutely amazed at the ability of those folks. The winner that day had a less than 6 inch group.

Edited by PA RIDGE RUNNER, 23 January 2008 - 10:14 PM.

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#24 REDGREEN

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Posted 24 January 2008 - 10:35 PM

Did you forget your specs? :hmm: Maybe, all of that hair obscured your vision, Woody, and that's why you missed. :idea: Try a razor! :lol: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

#25 Joe

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 05:38 PM

Sounds as if you answered your owm question. Misjudged distance, we all could use more practice at this, thus you aimed to low. I know for sure that I need more practice. One other thing to take into consideratian on long shots is the wind if there are trees aroune I use the leaves and branches as indicaters opone must take the weight of the bullet, area of the bullet that is in contact of the wind, time of flight and affects of the air that is displsced by the bullet moving thru the air and interacting with the wind as said on short shots these have little or no effect but on long shots they will all combine to make shots more difficult. The only way to gain the knowledge to make these educated guesses is practice practice and more practice at differant ranges. I had a chance to make a 500 yard shot give or take 15 yards either way, I was using the 300RUM with a 180gr bullet if you want to know it was a Hornady SST I had made a a175yd shot and the results were spetacular a behind the shoulder shot that detrroyed the heatr and lungs, did not bust the stomach or intesties. The muzzel velocity was 3350fps Chronyed which was just under 30 inches at 500 yds. I could have made a mortal shot except according to the wind blowing the leaves and branches a varried amount and directions I decided not to shoot and the deer was long gone by the time we got to a better range. Besides I don't practice enough at that range and will use the 300RUM as a target gun as it is just to darn heavy to carry around with the heavy barrel. I use either the 300WM,30-06 or 270 much lighter. I need to get to really loading for the 06 as it seems as it is going to be a great shooter. Heck I might even get an easy shot due to a deer stopping by to admire the rifle with the gorgous curly maple stock on it. It could happen ,maybe, hopefully. I know I know but a fellow can dream can't they? I am getting to chatty again, got to go and stop listening to myself while writing.
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#26 Whistle Pig

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Posted 18 September 2008 - 08:19 PM

Woody,

After reading your initial heading "Can't Hit A Buck With My Tikka...", and all the proceeding ballistic hubbub; I have a rather frank yet simple solution... just take it out for doe. :whistle:
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#27 gray wolf

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Posted 14 December 2008 - 08:15 PM

First let me say hello to you all as I welcome myself to the forum. This seems like a nice place to set up my shooting sticks.
Long range shooting does not happen by accident it requires much practice and patients
Two things most of us lack a little at least. Perhaps I can give a little advise for those that would care to listen to what has worked for me.
But first let me say I have no respect for people that take shots longer than there capabilities or over stretch the limitations of the caliber they are using. I have seen many hunters go into the local sand pit and site in at 50 yards by taking two or three shots --be some place close to the black and call it good. Then go out and try a shot at 300 yards and wonder why they miss. Wounding an animal is not a fun thing to do. If a person is confident in there shot and still misses--hey it happens. But at least we went into the shot feeling we could do it. All else in my opinion is *** luck --like the pool shot by a beginner that makes everyone look and gasp.
We must know our rifle and our ammunition -- how it shoots at all ranges--At least to the extent that we think we may shoot. Ballistic charts are a good start but not an answer just a guide line.
Ok Wolf e-enough tell us how you do it--What do you use to take 3, 350 and 400 yards shots.
I find a place that I can shoot at the distance I want to be capable off--lets pick 350 yards
Sounds better than 300 Eh :rolleyes: . First thing I will do is to zero the turrets on my scope--Um so how do we do that? Take the little caps off the turrets you know the ones that keep the rain out. Run the adjustment on the wind age knob all the way in one direction and then slowly Come all the way back to the other stop While counting all the clicks. Lets say you count 60 little clicks-- We now know we have 60 minutes of movement in that turret. Come back 30 clicks and what do you know your in the middle. Do the same for the other turret and they are zeroed. Now I site in for dead nuts zero at 100 yards. I don't leave the 100 yard line until I am confident in my ability to hit a 1" target if my rifle is of that capability. I choose 100 yards so that I know that all my long shots will require me to elevate the scope and not have to come up or go down as I would if I were zeroed in at lets say 250 yards. I know all my shots under 100 will be dead on holds. I then move to 150 and shoot with a dead on hold I will be low so I count the clicks in elevation to get me dead on at that range--at that point I right down on a little card how many clicks it took--I guess you could scratch the number into your stock but I choose the little piece of paper.
The same thing is done for 175--200--225--250--275 and on and on you get the picture.
I now have my scope click adjustment for each range. I then re-zero my turrets back to the 100 yard position. My Zeiss 3 1/2 X 10 X 50 has a little mark that shows me I am back to that zero.
If not just count the clicks. So if I get a shot at 100 I hold dead on as the rifle came out of the case. If my shot is 175 I look at my card and it tells me to go up lets say 9 clicks. So 9 clicks up and I am dead on at 175 yards. 9 clicks back and I am back to the 100 yard zero --How did I know it was 175 yards Use a good range finder-- To the best that I know there is only one other way to be sure and that is with a
Mill dot reticle
Lets be honest we can all come pretty close to 100 yards with the old eye but
after that I think we our taking our best guess. I want to say I can hit my target not I guess I can hit it. So it goes --if the shot is 300 yards I look at my cheat sheet and get the # of clicks to go up if the shot is a miss --heaven forbid or I choose not to take it I come back to my 100 yard zero mark ( count the clicks back or have a mark on your turret) and I am ready for the next opportunity.
I never take a shot without some kind of a rest. If you think you don't need one for long shots then try and get 5 kill shots without one at distances over 100 yards--If you can do it than you don't need any help.--Can you ?--- some can but most can't --I am one of the
can nots. Mill dot scopes ( mill radiant) can tell you the distance of a target if you know the exact size of your target and you know how to read the dots in the scope
Size of target X 27.8 divided by the size of the target in mills. But you must still know how much to hold over.
Mill dot scopes are a whole other different subject and I am getting tired and you are probably getting tired of my post.
Just trying to help some people resist taking shots they can't make and offering a little help at getting better.

GW.

Edit to say --if you rifle bullet combo looses accurasy at one point change to anothe combo or stop at that distance.

Edited by gray wolf, 14 December 2008 - 08:25 PM.


#28 PA RIDGE RUNNER

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Posted 14 December 2008 - 08:49 PM

Welcome Grey Wolf, loved your post and agree with your logic. For myself and my 7mm mag If I am sighted in about 1 3/4 inches high at 100 yds I am dead on at 200 and 8 inches low at 300. I did spend a bit of time at the range determining all this. The only thing I did not do was shoot at 50 yds with this set up so I do not know how high it hits at that distance. I also agree that it takes more than a couple of shots to be effective at anything 200 yds or more. In my mind it takes at least twice the concentration at 200 yds as it does at 100 and at least 3 times the concentration at 300 yds. It is also one thing to shoot from a real solid rest from the bench but where I hunt there are no such shooting benches and that makes the shot just that much more difficult. Practice brings confidence and confidence is an absolute necessity.
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Remember the Ark was built by amateurs, the titanic by professionals.

#29 gray wolf

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 09:28 AM

PA RIDGE RUNNER Practice brings confidence and confidence is an absolute necessity.

You said a mouthful there. I know some hunters that love to hunt but wont take the time to shoot there weapon. I stand behind what I have said. " If you don't know your rifle and bullet and how it shoots you are
guessing at hitting your target.
It sounds like you have gotten close to finding your rifles M-P-B-R
( maximum point blank range ) That is the point that your bullet will enter a kill zone without adjusting your hold.
What happens here is: A shooter decides the kill zone of his target --lets say a Deer-- and the kill zone is
an 8 inch circle. maximum point blank range is the nearest and farthest range that your bullet will fall into that kill zone with a dead on hold. A good ballistic program can help with this and reduce ammo cost.
I think Remington has one that I have used ( Rem shoot 32-- or just shoot 32 ) lets you choose your particular rifle and load and will Calculate your point blank range --- and show your hit on a target.. They have a 30 day free trial that let's you use the whole program and print out your results.
Then you can confirm or deny the results at the range.
A good range finder ( they are very small now and not very heavy ) and a simple set of shooting stix can help to complete your long range shooting outfit.
Wind is a hard thing to master and adds a whole other ration of sh-t to the game. Things get interesting don't they. It is just a little added cost--but what the heck look at what we all spend on our professions and our hobby's.
Well long and short of it is you have done some home work and it will show when that 10 pointer is 280 yards out and you squeeze of that shot. -Good job-
Let's remember that a 10% error in distance at 300 yards is 30 yards --90 feet-- That's a heck of a lot to be off.
Train--and know your equipment and it shows in the end.

GW.

#30 PA RIDGE RUNNER

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 03:07 PM

Well said now you and I have to gang together, go to Arizona and teach old Woody. NOTE: A whole bunch of us on this site have made special efforts to meet each other face to face. I was blessed this spring to have met both Woody and his wife Patsy. If they make it back this way I do plan on having Woody shoot some so I can see his technique and hopefully help him with those longer range shots. Personally I do not take many of those way out there shots but practice as though all my shots are long range thus I have the confidence to take a 300 yd shot.
If God had a refrigerator would your picture be on it.
Remember the Ark was built by amateurs, the titanic by professionals.




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