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Anyone Else Concerned?


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#1 Jeremiah

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Posted 24 August 2008 - 04:32 PM

Edit:

I decided to turn this one into a blog entry...
http://forums.huntin...mp;showentry=91

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#2 Leo

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Posted 24 August 2008 - 05:43 PM

Well I'm concerned it wouldn't let me leave a comment.

This is what I tried to leave:

Actually I believe the Stallone movie you are referring to is "Demolition Man". Sandra Bullock and Wesley Snipes were other players.

I wouldn't doubt Wilbur Primos is not the "acquisition guy" but I would doubt it is occurring without his blessing.

There's good money to be made in the outdoor industry and it's gonna get nasty while folks fight over it. We ARE gonna see good stuff go away that we will miss. We ARE also gonna see new stuff we'll like.

In all, when it's all looked at in the future, we may be glad there was some big money and a few big voices sticking up for us.
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#3 Jeremiah

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Posted 24 August 2008 - 06:06 PM

LOL Demolition Man, yes... Edit made. ;)

I can see your comment in the blog though. :hmm:

I guess that's one way to look at it. For some reason, I see some companies more as "users" than defenders of our hunting rights though. I guess as long as there is a future it's better than none at all. But, I do wonder if it'll all be so commercial that I won't want any part of it one day.

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#4 Spirithawk

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Posted 24 August 2008 - 06:17 PM

I agree it's getting very comercial. If you listen to the adds these days it's virtually impossible to shoot a deer, at least a trophy one, unless you have the latest gear and gimicks. Huntting is getting too much like fishing in that respect. There is something to be said about the guy who just puts on his worn jeans, flannel shirt and an old, but warm, jacket. Who then grabs his trusty deer rifle, that he's used for ages, and maybe even was handed down to him. Who walks quietly into the woods each year, no flash nor high priced gimmicks, and scores almost every time. The guy who does so simply because of skill and exsperience, not because of something some guy on tv or in a magazine insisted he need. I'll admit, I'm like a kid in a candy store when at places like Bass Pro. Some of the new stuff even makes sense, but when you get right down to the heart of things, hunting and enjoying the outdoors in general, requires little more than just being there and the love of doing so. Who do you think is having the better time? The guy in high dollar, state of the art camo, carrying an exspensive rifle with a high dollar scope, wearing $200.00 boots, carrying GPS, radio, exspensive knife, deer lure, cover scents, state of the art climbing tree stand and who knows what else or the kid carrying his dad's old .30-.30 lever action, wearing his old faded jeans and flannel shirt and usually over sized coat. No gimicks to carry. Just maybe a snack stuffed into a deep pocket. A kid that has stayed awake every night for the last week before season in anticipation. Or the kids dad dressed much the same and full of love for the outdoors, his son, and the game they're hunting? Sometimes we just need to stop and take a good look into the heart of things. Hunting is much more than just a dollar sign to those who truly love it. Success and happiness is seldom far away when we do. :D

Edited by Spirithawk, 24 August 2008 - 06:18 PM.


#5 7pointbuck

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 01:17 AM

:doh: I AM SO GLAD OTHERS FEEL THIS WAY, I AM GETTING SO SICK OF THE COMMERCIAL RIF ON THE OUTDOOR NETWORKS,YOU KNOW I KNOW MATTHEWS MAKES FINE BOWS AND I KNOW T/C ENCORES ARE GREAT PRODUCTION RIFLES,SOME CAN AFFORD AND SOME CANNOT BUT IS IT SO TOUGH OR AGAINST THE GRAIN TO SHOW A CHILD SHOOT HIS FIRST DEER WITH HIS DADS 30-30? IT GETS SO ANNOYING TO SEE THESE FOLKS PLUG SPOSORS AFTER SHOOTING A DEER,LIKE THEY JUST WON THE DAYTONA 500, SCENTLOK AND SCENT BLOCKER.....DONT GET ME STARTED :cry: ,40,000 DIFFERENT TRAIL CAMERAS ALL BETTER THAN THE NEXT :curse: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE SIMPLICITY THAT WE GREW UP ON,WHEN IT WAS JUST OUR OLD RIFLE,GOD AND A COLD FROSTY MORNING. I AM SORRY TO RANT,IT IS JUST GETTING ON MY NERVES HERE OF LATE,THE OUTDOOR SHOWS AT ONE TIME THAT WERE PURE TO ME,NOT SO MUCH ANYMORE.ITS ALL ABOUT THE DOLLAR AND LITTLE ABOUT HERITAGE.

BILL

Edited by 7pointbuck, 25 August 2008 - 01:20 AM.

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#6 Rowdy Yates

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 07:41 AM

You can put both arms out and the list would hit the floor of the companies we all know in the outdoor industry that are owned by some huge corp. or a few people. I sat in a well known outfitters office last summer and over heard some conversation about a buy out of a well known product line the outfitter represented in his TV show. That conversation carried over to the dinner table where some other hunters explained that same thing and how many companies are owned by one holding company. Two of these companies are Primos products and Summit Treestands are owned by the same holding company. You would not know it from the front door looking at the these two companies. Smart business move on the part of the holding company.

It's the same in several other industries. You start a business or buy a business get it up to size that attacks attention and you get offers to buy it. Or you are thinking how to grow it larger and want investors or you want to retire and sell it.

There is maybe a couple big wealthy guys behind most of these companies and their advertising money is a bit more than the orginal owners ever had. The add formats start to look all the same too. It hasn't hurt their products quality and if any thing it has helped drive some research and development and improvements at a faster pace. And that's why we all buy new equipment from time to time. My opinion it hasn't hurt the outdoor industry but grew it up some.
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#7 Jeremiah

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 08:04 AM

I think we're stepping off the path just a little bit. Personally, I have no problem with a company trying to sell product or a "professional hunter" trying to pay their bills by plugging said company's product. That's just the way it works. A manufacturer/company has to be getting some sort of meaningful return for both paying to advertise on a show as well as supplying product. At the end of the day, if that sort of thing bothers someone they can always just change the channel as I see it.

No, my real concern here lies with the thought that the industry is turning into a battle of the have and have-nots just like any other area of the corporate world. Certain "large" companies are just swooping in and buying up all of their competition. Look... Savage Arms, BowTech, AND Ross Archery are all now part of a three-headed monster. Prior to that, BowTech had already acquired Diamond Archery and they had their own camo dipping company - WaterDog Surface Technologies. Hoyt and Easton actually merged many years ago now. Hoyt also owns Fuse archery. (It's hilarious to see guys shooting a Mathews or BowTech bow, for example, bashing Hoyt bows to all of their buddies even though they have a Fuse quiver on their bow. :rofl: "Here's yer sign!" )

It all just makes me very concerned for the "little guys" in the industry who maybe end late on a bill or two. They are just sitting ducks waiting to be picked off by some conglomerate. The big guys are getting bigger and the little guys are disappearing. Oh well, I'm probably the only one who cares. Maybe I shouldn't care. But, that's kind of why I asked, "Is anyone else concerned?" ;)

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#8 Jeremiah

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 08:16 AM

You can put both arms out and the list would hit the floor of the companies we all know in the outdoor industry that are owned by some huge corp. or a few people. I sat in a well known outfitters office last summer and over heard some conversation about a buy out of a well known product line the outfitter represented in his TV show. That conversation carried over to the dinner table where some other hunters explained that same thing and how many companies are owned by one holding company. Two of these companies are Primos products and Summit Treestands are owned by the same holding company. You would not know it from the front door looking at the these two companies. Smart business move on the part of the holding company.

It's the same in several other industries. You start a business or buy a business get it up to size that attacks attention and you get offers to buy it. Or you are thinking how to grow it larger and want investors or you want to retire and sell it.

There is maybe a couple big wealthy guys behind most of these companies and their advertising money is a bit more than the orginal owners ever had. The add formats start to look all the same too. It hasn't hurt their products quality and if any thing it has helped drive some research and development and improvements at a faster pace. And that's why we all buy new equipment from time to time. My opinion it hasn't hurt the outdoor industry but grew it up some.


Yep. I don't remember all of the players as it's been a few years now since I was involved and I never really put too much thought into such things back then anyway. But, I was one of the people responsible for calling/contacting companies for various reasons when I still worked for DWP. Only a couple of our sponsors for "Bushnell Outdoors" had to be dealt with through the big holdings companies. However, several of the automotive sponsors we had for the "Track and Trail Adventures" show were dealt with directly at the top to handle two or three "smaller company" accounts.


I wish now I had paid a little more attention back then. Oh well.

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#9 7pointbuck

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 11:09 AM

well noted jer and mark, sorry that i misread :blush: you both make a good solid point as always!! :bigthumb: its just on a personal note and viewpoint, that my viewing of the outdoor networks as dropped tremendously :wacko: I thank God above that there is one pure place left,and thats right here at Hunting resource :bigthumb: I truely appreciate this campfire!thanks again Jerimiah for all you have done and continue to do for us.

Bill

Edited by 7pointbuck, 25 August 2008 - 11:11 AM.

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#10 Jeremiah

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 11:43 AM

There is absolutely no need to appologize for anything. Your viewpoint is one shared by many. I may have even touched it off with my "longing for the old days" comment. But, that's fine. Discussion is good. It's what we do. :lol:

I didn't mean that I literally wanted to go back in time in that respect though. Where would I even stop? (A loin cloth and a spear or club, I suppose, would be the oldest methods. :P ) Like I've said before, I like my Gore-Tex, Thinsulate, Vibram boot soles, laser rangefinder... I can't begin to say how much more enjoyable my trips afield are thanks to being pretty much assured of staying warm and having dry feet. :D

Beyond that, I try to be very careful about what I say and do on such subjects. There are "elitist groups" within our ranks who truly believe you aren't bowhunting if you shoot a compound, for example. (It had better be a longbow. For others, it's recurve and longbow only.) This is totally MY opinion, and not one person here needs to agree with me. (I have never once booted anyone from a site I run for not agreeing with me. :P ) But, I have no problem with someone who buys every new piece of gear that comes out "just because". I know a lot of people who do so that are still "true hunters" to the core that probably possess better woodsmanship skills than most folks I know. (One buddy I'm thinking of has a great career and simply has the money to spend. I make fun of him sometimes, but he's a great guy and a heck of a hunter. More power to him!)

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#11 mudduck

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 12:12 PM

A guy starts out building turkey calls in his basement and sells a few locally. They work pretty well and by word of mouth, he starts getting quite a few orders. Decides he needs to hire a few friends to help build his calls. More orders flow in, quits his regular job to build calls full time, hires more people and makes a decent living. Discovers that his method, while sucessful, is quite labor intensive, also discovers the joy of workers comp rules, OSHA regs,etc. and discovers he has verylittle time left to do what he really enjoys- hunting turkeys with his terckey gun! Along comes a Corporation and says "Young man, you've done a fine job starting and raising this company, exceptional product and customer satisfaction. We would like to purchase your company and patents for X dollars and and offer you a position with us". You will now work 8 instead of 16 hours a day, no stress, time to hunt, and money in the pocket. Also, free time to contemplate your next business venture. While this little story is purely fiction, Thereare many start up businesses whose goal is just that , start small, keep costs low, return a profit, and sell to larger firms

#12 Jeremiah

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 12:25 PM

A guy starts out building turkey calls in his basement and sells a few locally. They work pretty well and by word of mouth, he starts getting quite a few orders...

I know right there is where I stopped. :lol:
I had no interest in it going any further.
Point taken though.

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#13 7pointbuck

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 12:49 PM

jer in a loin cloth, what to do ,what to do :hmm: :hmm: :hmm: i know :yes: :yes: ..... sorry i cant resist :P



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Edited by 7pointbuck, 25 August 2008 - 12:51 PM.

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#14 PA RIDGE RUNNER

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 07:51 PM

Although the buying of one company by a larger conglomerate has and is happening it is happening in most all the business community. Take Walmart (big guy company) coming to town and soon they are impacting the mom and pop retailers. What is scary to me is Walmart after the mom and pop goes out of business they change their selling policies especially in the realm of hunting goods. Now days in my area I can't buy a gun at walmart but they literally put my favorite mom and pop store out of business so I can't buy there either. I have to travel 100 miles to a bass pro and about 175 miles to a Cabelas. I am sure that Bass pro and Cabelas have put mom and pop stores out of business too but they still sell just about every manner and description of hunting equipment. Another company buy out that does not seem to have affected the original company so far is the buy out of TC by Smith and Wesson.
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#15 Leo

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 07:56 PM

The mom and pop storefront of the 21st century is Ebay IMHO.
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