Jump to content


Photo

Traditional Versus In-lines


  • Please log in to reply
13 replies to this topic

#1 Spirithawk

Spirithawk

    Never Logs Off

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,343 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 30 October 2008 - 03:08 PM

This might open a can of worms, errrrrrr powder! ;) :lol: Just wondering who prefers traditional rifles over the new state of art ones? I admit, jason has me spoiled to the more convienient in-lines, but I still prefer the feel and charm of a good traditional style rifle. I use to go to all the rendezvous and had all the buckskins and accessories. I really miss the fun. I once took a stroll along the bluffs overlooking the Meramec River, here in Missouri, while wearing my attire. A young couple was floating and pulled up right below me in their canoe. I yelled a howdy and waved. They got a shocked look on their faces, untied real fast, and took off paddling down river like they were in a hurry to be somewheres else. Shocked me for a minute there. Then I realised what they looked up and saw. :eek: An old geezer in buckskins, flowing long hair and beard, powder horn and possibles bag slung over my shoulders, carrying a hawken rifle with a throwing hawk and flintlock pistol in his wide leather belt! I'll bet they didn't quit paddling till they got to St. Louis, 150 miles away! :rofl: :rofl:

Edited by Spirithawk, 30 October 2008 - 03:09 PM.


#2 Jeremiah

Jeremiah

    Hunting Resource

  • Owner/Admin
  • 3,087 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Western Pennsylvania
  • Interests:God, Family, Hunting, Archery, Outdoors, Computers, Website Development...

Posted 30 October 2008 - 04:11 PM

Which: Traditional

Why: Because

;)

PA IHEA & NBEF/IBEP Instructor

sig_admin.png


#3 Eric

Eric

    Totally Addicted

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,085 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 30 October 2008 - 04:27 PM

:hmm: :shrug: Both.
AKA PA Spike King
Casters Hunting Club
Real Men Shoot Flintlocks
International Harvester Tractors
2008 Realtree Turkey Contest Team Champs!

#4 PA RIDGE RUNNER

PA RIDGE RUNNER

    Life Member

  • Authors
  • 5,702 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 30 October 2008 - 07:40 PM

Just because PA forced me to use a flintlock since the mid 70s I have learned to like my old sparkys. I own and have shot sidelock percussion. I also own and shoot an inline. My inline is old school though as it still uses either the #11 percussion caps or by changing the nipple I can use a musket cap.

I like them all and use them but when meat needs to be put on the table and if they are legal I shoot the inline as it is the most accurate and fastest ignition.
If God had a refrigerator would your picture be on it.
Remember the Ark was built by amateurs, the titanic by professionals.

#5 Charles

Charles

    Can Charge Rent

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 649 posts

Posted 31 October 2008 - 10:04 AM

I like my Ol' Flinter.
5-November-2008 - Today is the first day of the down fall of American as we know it.

#6 Whitetiger

Whitetiger

    Totally Addicted

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,271 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:allentown PA

Posted 31 October 2008 - 07:32 PM

Flintlock all the way. modern bp rifles arent much different then a centerfire rifle. which is why us flinters have our own bp season here in pa.

#7 cayugad

cayugad

    Hunting Resource

  • Moderators
  • 881 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 31 October 2008 - 10:54 PM

While I disagree with the statement, modern bp rifles arent much different then a centerfire rifle, and could prove that any time someone wants.. I like traditional rifles a great deal. I also like the modern muzzleloaders. I started out over thirty years ago with a CVA Mountain Rifle .58 caliber my friend owned. I was so impressed with the thing I bought a T/C Renegade Kit in .54 caliber and built that. I shot that rifle for many years, taking a lot of deer with a simple roundball. I can remember when the first Knight rifle came on the market. While it was interesting to read about, I really not got the inline bug until about six years or so ago. Now I own ten of them inline rifles. Still I acquired many more traditional rifles also...

I don't find an inline rifle any more accurate or more positive as far as ignition. One hunting season I had two rifles working the week, a inline and a Renegade. The inline failed to fire, while the Renegade never did. All I find an inline is.. different in the way it fires. I have a traditional rifle with a 1-28 twist that will shoot sabots as good as any inline rifle. I have a flintlock with a 1-28 twist that shoots sabots perfect. So all an inline represents is a different ignition and in most cases a faster twist to shoot modern projectiles.
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, a total wreck with a big smile on your face."

#8 Spirithawk

Spirithawk

    Never Logs Off

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,343 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 01 November 2008 - 03:32 AM

The main differance I see between in-lines and traditional is being able to use the more convienient pellets over loose powder in the in-lines. By the way, I have my eye on an exceptionaly nice CVA Hawken Flintlock .50 that a friend just aquired and is interested in doing some trading.

#9 PA RIDGE RUNNER

PA RIDGE RUNNER

    Life Member

  • Authors
  • 5,702 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 01 November 2008 - 04:07 AM

Make sure it sparks really well. I once borrowed an older CVA flinter for Eric to use and had big problems getting it to go off.
If God had a refrigerator would your picture be on it.
Remember the Ark was built by amateurs, the titanic by professionals.

#10 Whitetiger

Whitetiger

    Totally Addicted

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,271 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:allentown PA

Posted 01 November 2008 - 07:26 AM

My main issue with inlines & where Im comparing them to center fire is how they can reach out to 200 yrds where as a tradidional bp rifle is a closer range firearm.

#11 PA RIDGE RUNNER

PA RIDGE RUNNER

    Life Member

  • Authors
  • 5,702 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 01 November 2008 - 07:31 PM

Ok now listen up as I am only going to tell you once or twice or more.
I look at muzzleloaders as falling into three categories
Category 1 Flintlocks. They have been around since the early 1600s and were found to be in use by 1630. Our todays flintlocks are only the same as those very old ones in form and function. The materials in todays flintlocks are not iron as the old ones were but are modern steel and springs are they traditional?????

Category 2 Sidelock percussion. This style of rifle actually was invented in the very early 1800s but actually did not gain much popularity till the civil war. The main reason this superior ignition did not catch on was most people lived too far away from a source of the caps necessary to ignite the rifle. If you were out in the frontier and ran out of caps or had them rendered unusable i.e. got them wet your rifle was only useful as a club till you could get more. The side lock percussion still has a hammer but of different shape than the flintlock and employes a bolster or drum that sticks out from the side of the barrel. This drum has a hole drilled near the end and is threaded to accept a nipple which is angled to allow it to be struck by the hammer. The sidelock percussion is now also made of modern steel and springs are they traditional?????

Category 3 Inlines. In the mid 1980s Tony Knight invented the inline. Or did he. He took all the concepts of the sidelock percussion and just moved the ignition from the side of the barrel and placed it at the rear of the barrel which he threaded that part and threaded the drum on the outside and screwed it in the end of the barrel and placed the nipple at the end of the of the drum. He then borrowed the concept that is exactly the same as the old stevens 22 single shots and used it for a striker. The reason the ignition is faster is in a sidelock percussion the flame must travel the length of the nipple and enter the drum, turn 90 degrees and travel the length of the drum and the thickness of the barrel before it makes contact with the powder charge. With the inline the flame only has to travel the length of the nipple to reach the powder charge.

All three are loaded exactly the same way. They all must be cocked and the trigger pulled to fire them. My question is what is traditional and what is not. Apparently traditional is a mental attitude and not so much one of function. You can stand straight as a ramrod and expouse your opinion lock stock and barrel but if you do not agree with me you are just a flash in the pan. Lol :D
If God had a refrigerator would your picture be on it.
Remember the Ark was built by amateurs, the titanic by professionals.

#12 Whitetiger

Whitetiger

    Totally Addicted

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,271 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:allentown PA

Posted 01 November 2008 - 08:11 PM

Well in that case then from my understanding , a tradition is something thats started by one and passed along from generation to generation. That being said then catagories one and two are tradition as they've been passed down thru the ages. Where catagory three is just an old fad (albeit one of the few from the 80's that made sense) thats hung around but hasnt been around long enough to be considered a tradition yet.

#13 cayugad

cayugad

    Hunting Resource

  • Moderators
  • 881 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 02 November 2008 - 04:03 PM

My main issue with inlines & where Im comparing them to center fire is how they can reach out to 200 yrds where as a tradidional bp rifle is a closer range firearm.


There again, that is not all true Whitetiger. Some of the long distance records that still stand today were set with traditional rifles. The Gibbs, and Whitworth were known as long range sniper rifles. The Sharps was a cartridge type. But again, a very older style rifle. Also the introduction of inlines was not actually in 1985 with Tony Knight's MK85. There are inline rifles in museums that are much older then that. They were just never accepted as a working rifle at the time.

If you take an inline rifle with open sights, and a traditional rifle with open sights, it is only as accurate as your eye sight will allow and the design of the rifle and its projection of the bullet. No argument that a sabot is better in flight then a roundball. BUT when people tell you they shoot 200 yards, I will bet 99% of the time, they have a scoped rifle.

Posted Image

This traditional rifle for instance has a stainless steel 1-28 twist barrel and will shoot sabots as well as any modern inline rifle with the right optics. Does this make this a traditional rifle or a modern rifle. We are talking optics, and barrel harmonics in this case. Ignition systems are totally separate in this case.

Still you take the scopes off inline and traditional rifles and give them to me, they are 100 yard rifles. Why... I am not that good of a shot with open sights. 75 yards I try to stay at or under when I have the open sights.

An inline is the natural progression of the sport. Any sport finds better ways to compete. Look at archery, long bows, stick bows, re curve bows, compound bows, now they have special cams that can really make a compound do some amazing things with an arrow. But they are all bows.
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, a total wreck with a big smile on your face."

#14 PA RIDGE RUNNER

PA RIDGE RUNNER

    Life Member

  • Authors
  • 5,702 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 02 November 2008 - 05:51 PM

Cayugad hit on a very good point. When reading on the history of black powder arms to research for a little talk I gave year before last at a father/son banquet I was amazed at the number of experimental firearms that were noted. Some were just way before their time while others were just confusing. All were interesting though. I agree on the inline concept being in existance before Tony Knights mid 1980 offering. I truly believe that some of the experimental rifles were too far ahead of the technology of the time. I am of the belief of inclusion rather than exclusion so am open to all the current offerings as they do have a place.
If God had a refrigerator would your picture be on it.
Remember the Ark was built by amateurs, the titanic by professionals.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users