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Shooting roundball out of a Hawkins


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#1 cayugad

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Posted 18 May 2006 - 03:44 PM

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All too often we see shooting reports on the modern in line rifle and sabot combination. Today I decided to shoot traditional roundball, with an open standard iron sight out of a Tradition's Hawkins Woodsman. I was shooting off my bench bags at 70 yards.

The first two low shots at the center bull told me what sight picture I needed. I then began trying to fill the bull. Holding a true 6 o'clock hold with the bullseye it hits about an inch high. This rifle should be right on at 100 yards.

My final three shot group I was really pleased with. Just goes to show, shot placement and the right projectile and it is all over.
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#2 PA RIDGE RUNNER

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Posted 18 May 2006 - 03:56 PM

You sure are right Cayugad. I presume it is a 1:48 twist or is it not. Erics Lyman and my Investarms both are 1:48 and shoot the round ball pretty well. We found Eric's Lyman shoots the round ball even better with a felt wad under the bullet. With your groups though it may not be noticable. Good shooting.
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#3 cayugad

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Posted 18 May 2006 - 06:35 PM

This little rifle is made for roundball shooting and it has a 1-66 twist. It is a sweet little Hawkins I bought back in the early 90's. Now all of them have the 1-48 twist. Glad I got mine when I did.
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#4 PA RIDGE RUNNER

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Posted 18 May 2006 - 06:48 PM

Have you ever tried a wad under the ball I know it improved the accuracy in our 1:48 twist rifles.
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#5 runNgun

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Posted 18 May 2006 - 07:39 PM

This little rifle is made for roundball shooting and it has a 1-66 twist. It is a sweet little Hawkins I bought back in the early 90's. Now all of them have the 1-48 twist. Glad I got mine when I did.

If you dont mind me asking, what does a rate of twist like 1-48 mean or stand for?


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#6 cayugad

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Posted 18 May 2006 - 09:03 PM

1-48 means for every 48 inches of barrel length, the projectile that travel up that due to the spin caused by the rifling will make one entire revolution in the 48 inches.

The 1-28 inch for example, a faster twist, the projectile makes a complete revolution in 28 inches.

Since longer projectiles stabilize better with a faster twist, then you want to push a long projectile and spin it very fast. Here the sabots and some long conicals do very well in a 1-28 twist.

The roundball on the other hand, being very poor in ballistics, does not need to spin as much, but does need to spin a little to stabilize. So here a 1-66 twist, 1-70 or slower is the better option.

The 1-48 twist will shoot about anything although some argue that point. I have seen 1-48 twist rifles shoot roundball so accurate you can not believe they are that twist.

You also have to take into consideration the depth and cut of rifling found in the barrels. But that's it in a nut shell.
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#7 Russ

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Posted 29 August 2008 - 12:18 PM

I am also shooting the round ball, I think it weights about 168 gr's to177 gr's, with 100 gr's of Jim Shocke's gold. The spelling maybe wrong but I think you get the idea. At about 30 yards my group is pretty good, but was wondering what the shot placement should be for a 100 yard shot. The 30 yard shots are in the center of the target.

Thanks
Russ :help:

#8 cayugad

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Posted 29 August 2008 - 05:10 PM

With season coming fast I like to get in some real time shooting. So today I went out to one of the locations where I will put a ground blind. I hauled my bucket seat, and shooting sticks back to the blind (that is not up yet) and my portable target, my shooting kit, duct tape, and index cards. And I even remembered a rifle and powder.

I was shooting a Traditions .50 caliber Woodsman Hawkins with a 1-66 twist barrel. I know what the rifle likes and that is 90 grains of black powder normally. But I wanted to test a new lube I made the other day as well.

So I set my portable target on the deer trail where they pass by me. It is 35 yards away according to the range finder and the fact I cut the clearing that way. I then started shooting different powders, wads, and lubes.

I started out with Pyrodex RS and was having an heck of a time with hang fires. I was sure I had the rifle good and dry. And I was not swabbing. I can't believe the new lube caused that. Granted I held steady through two hang fires with it off the shooting sticks and at 35 yards I still would have gave a deer a bad day with a roundball.

I then went to the Graf's & Sons black powder 2f, and all the hang fires disappeared. The rifle shot perfect and filled the woods with lots of smoke.

I then swabbed the barrel with some alcohol and dry patched it. This time I loaded 90 grains of Graf's 3f and used a wad with it. I then shot the one on a clean barrel and the rest on a unswabbed barrel.

I then picked out a spot 50 yards back in the brush. I had a clear view into it, and could see there, so I moved the target back to there. It was pretty cool where I was sitting as the index card was right next to a tree. I decided to use the old standard load of moose milk, no wad and 90 grains of 3f powder. Again this little rifle shot perfect, no hang fires. I slipped a couple out of the group, but overall I was very pleased with the rifle.

This is the rifle my nephew will be using when they come to visit over the Christmas Holiday (muzzleloader season). I am going to let him hunt with me now that he is old enough (even though my sister will scream bloody murder) and this little Hawkins should be just the medicine for deer.



Posted Image


This might give you an idea of what the rifle will do, but the best way to learn what the rifle will do, is go to the range and shoot..
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, a total wreck with a big smile on your face."

#9 Russ

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Posted 30 August 2008 - 11:17 AM

With season coming fast I like to get in some real time shooting. So today I went out to one of the locations where I will put a ground blind. I hauled my bucket seat, and shooting sticks back to the blind (that is not up yet) and my portable target, my shooting kit, duct tape, and index cards. And I even remembered a rifle and powder.

I was shooting a Traditions .50 caliber Woodsman Hawkins with a 1-66 twist barrel. I know what the rifle likes and that is 90 grains of black powder normally. But I wanted to test a new lube I made the other day as well.

So I set my portable target on the deer trail where they pass by me. It is 35 yards away according to the range finder and the fact I cut the clearing that way. I then started shooting different powders, wads, and lubes.

I started out with Pyrodex RS and was having an heck of a time with hang fires. I was sure I had the rifle good and dry. And I was not swabbing. I can't believe the new lube caused that. Granted I held steady through two hang fires with it off the shooting sticks and at 35 yards I still would have gave a deer a bad day with a roundball.

I then went to the Graf's & Sons black powder 2f, and all the hang fires disappeared. The rifle shot perfect and filled the woods with lots of smoke.

I then swabbed the barrel with some alcohol and dry patched it. This time I loaded 90 grains of Graf's 3f and used a wad with it. I then shot the one on a clean barrel and the rest on a unswabbed barrel.

I then picked out a spot 50 yards back in the brush. I had a clear view into it, and could see there, so I moved the target back to there. It was pretty cool where I was sitting as the index card was right next to a tree. I decided to use the old standard load of moose milk, no wad and 90 grains of 3f powder. Again this little rifle shot perfect, no hang fires. I slipped a couple out of the group, but overall I was very pleased with the rifle.

This is the rifle my nephew will be using when they come to visit over the Christmas Holiday (muzzleloader season). I am going to let him hunt with me now that he is old enough (even though my sister will scream bloody murder) and this little Hawkins should be just the medicine for deer.



Posted Image


This might give you an idea of what the rifle will do, but the best way to learn what the rifle will do, is go to the range and shoot..



#10 Russ

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Posted 30 August 2008 - 11:30 AM

It looks like meat on the table to me, as a new black powder shooter some terms confuse me. Such as what is a wad, spit patches and coated patches I know but have never tried a wad. Is it like a shot gun wad ?. I am getting ready for deer season 4 Oct. and want to give myself and grandson the best chance I can. I can shoot out to 300 yards but have move my cows. We have a few very large Muley's and would like to put two in the freezer. Their western count would be 4 to 8 points. In our area we can not shoot anything under 3 points western count.

Thank you for your help
Russ 3:)

#11 PA RIDGE RUNNER

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Posted 30 August 2008 - 08:06 PM

Russ Muzzleloaders have their own language just as many other Hobbies and infact many jobs. It is ok to be confused about the nomenclature. A wad is a bore size disk of felt that is loaded on top of the powder and under the bullet. They should not be used with bullets that have a concave bottom or under sabots for the same reason. Usually a spit patch can be either a patch wetted with saliva or a product called spit patch and used to surround a round ball. I have heard the term used also in reference to a cleaning patch. As for coated patches I have only heard that term in conjunction with a pregreased round ball patch. You can buy round ball patches either dry or already lubed.
If you are planning on shooting a muzzleloader at 300 yards at game you will need to have a magnum inline as it will take a magnum load to still have enough energy to kill a deer at that distance. Believe me those magnum loads will not treat your shoulder very nice. I keep my shots at about 100 yds with any of my front loaders.
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#12 cayugad

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Posted 30 August 2008 - 08:19 PM

While I am sure there are muzzleloader shooters that can place their shots at 300 yards, I personally would never attempt it. I shoot a lot, but for me 150 yards is as far as I would shoot. I could probably hit out to 200 yards, but since I do not practice it, I will not shoot it. I am in luck as my shots are all under 75 yards. An average shot is about 35 yards for me. So simple roundball is plenty for white tail deer.

As for the terms, wads (as mentioned) can be fiber, paper, or felt bore size disks. Their purpose is to give a better gas seal, and in the case of patched roundball it helps protect the cloth patch from the explosion of the main charge.

A spit patch is when a piece of cloth is basically placed in your mouth and your saliva wets the cloth. This cloth is then worked down the bore after shooting in an attempt to clean the fowling out of the barrel. A dry patch after that is then run to dry the bore before the next loading. Patches can also be sprayed with Windex, alcohol and a number of commercial solvents. Coated patches are basically patches coated with a lube either liquid or semi solid. This lube on the cloth then helps protect that patch and ball as it is sent up the barrel.

Good luck shooting mule deer. I hear they are a great animal to hunt.
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#13 Russ

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Posted 30 August 2008 - 09:23 PM

Russ Muzzleloaders have their own language just as many other Hobbies and infact many jobs. It is ok to be confused about the nomenclature. A wad is a bore size disk of felt that is loaded on top of the powder and under the bullet. They should not be used with bullets that have a concave bottom or under sabots for the same reason. Usually a spit patch can be either a patch wetted with saliva or a product called spit patch and used to surround a round ball. I have heard the term used also in reference to a cleaning patch. As for coated patches I have only heard that term in conjunction with a pregreased round ball patch. You can buy round ball patches either dry or already lubed.
If you are planning on shooting a muzzleloader at 300 yards at game you will need to have a magnum inline as it will take a magnum load to still have enough energy to kill a deer at that distance. Believe me those magnum loads will not treat your shoulder very nice. I keep my shots at about 100 yds with any of my front loaders.



#14 Russ

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Posted 30 August 2008 - 09:32 PM

I misstated my intentions about the 300 yards. I was not planning to shoot 300 yards only that I had that much room with the cows moved. Thank you for the inforamtion and I will look for wads and give them a try at 50 and then 100 yards. If I can figure out how to show or add a pictue of the shots I will pass them along.

Does the wad make a tighter seal than the lubercated patch?

Thanks
Russ 3:)

#15 PA RIDGE RUNNER

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Posted 31 August 2008 - 06:19 AM

Russ guess I misread your post too. My son shoots a Lyman front loader and when he tried the wads his good accuracy became great accuracy. I always had a problem with the patch being badly burned and torn up. when I used the wads also known as bore buttons my patches were much better. I presume that since the patch is not being burned it does its job of gripping the lands much better. Not everyone that have tried the wads experienced much difference but both my son and I have.
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