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Shooting roundball out of a Hawkins


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#16 Russ

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Posted 31 August 2008 - 07:03 PM

Russ guess I misread your post too. My son shoots a Lyman front loader and when he tried the wads his good accuracy became great accuracy. I always had a problem with the patch being badly burned and torn up. when I used the wads also known as bore buttons my patches were much better. I presume that since the patch is not being burned it does its job of gripping the lands much better. Not everyone that have tried the wads experienced much difference but both my son and I have.



#17 Russ

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Posted 31 August 2008 - 07:11 PM

PA Ridge Runner and others,

Thanks for your information. I will try both wads and my coated patches. The patches I use do not appear to be burnt up. They are brown around the edges, but I have not seen one burnt up or completly black.

Well tomorrow its off to the store to pick up material for my shed roof and then a stop at the Sportsmans Wharehouse or the White Elephant to buy wads. I think the wads will be used before the roofing material, just a guess.

Thank you all
Russ 3:)

#18 cayugad

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Posted 31 August 2008 - 07:23 PM

Russ -

Flintlocks Inc. is a good place to purchase them. Mike makes a real good 1/8th unlubed felt wad for a reasonable cost. It's where I buy them from. Or Track of the Wolf sells a hard fiber .510 diameter wad that slips down the barrel nice. If memory serves me they come in packs of 1000 and they are the A wad. But its been a long time since I bought them as I am still shooting off the first 1000. Or email me your address and I will mail you twenty or so in an envelope if that would help. At least then you could try them and see if they work before you purchase them.



Flintlocks Inc.
6929 Beech Tree Rd.
Nineveh, IN 46164
(317) 933-3441


If you have a set of hollow hole punches, you can make your own. Get some construction felt at the lumber yard. Make sure it is 100% wool. This is the stuff you put around doors and windows to keep out drafts. Then take a 1/2 or 9/16th hollow hole punch and stamp your own out. You do not have to lube them. Or if you want you can lube them. Wool does not burn well, and their purpose is to protect the patch around the ball. Actually with a wad, the patches look like you could (and I have for kicks) shoot them again.
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#19 PA RIDGE RUNNER

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 05:28 AM

Russ I have tried the cardboard type wads but didn't like them as well as the felt ones. As Cayugad has said you could make your own if you have a 1/2 inch punch providing you are shooting a 50 cal. I prefer to lube the wads because when I do after the shot they are pretty much whole but when I do not lube them they are really torn up. Cayugad by the way is a man whose blackpowder knowledge I have come to trust a great deal. Unlike me he always seems to have at least a good word about everything. Now for myself do not ask for my comments on Traditions or CVA rifles or APP powder. Try as I might I have no good words on those three. Also Cayugad has brought up something that could be a help to the new to muzzleloadng troups and that is most of us who play a lot with front loaders have a supply of things like certain caliber/grain wt bullets, different types of sabots, and the like and I too would be willing to share a few to someone like yourself to try rather than have to buy a whole box just to find out they do not work as well out of your rifle and then you have a whole bunch of stuff you know will not work. Of course I most always have a real good supply of the things that do work too. If you are not familiar with how to get in touch with any of us on a one to one basis just click on their name and that takes you to their sign in page and I believe it is on the left side near the bottom there are two lines one being email this individual or PM this individual. click on the PM line and you can type a message and send to that person.
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#20 Russ

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 08:36 PM

Russ -

Flintlocks Inc. is a good place to purchase them. Mike makes a real good 1/8th unlubed felt wad for a reasonable cost. It's where I buy them from. Or Track of the Wolf sells a hard fiber .510 diameter wad that slips down the barrel nice. If memory serves me they come in packs of 1000 and they are the A wad. But its been a long time since I bought them as I am still shooting off the first 1000. Or email me your address and I will mail you twenty or so in an envelope if that would help. At least then you could try them and see if they work before you purchase them.



Flintlocks Inc.
6929 Beech Tree Rd.
Nineveh, IN 46164
(317) 933-3441


If you have a set of hollow hole punches, you can make your own. Get some construction felt at the lumber yard. Make sure it is 100% wool. This is the stuff you put around doors and windows to keep out drafts. Then take a 1/2 or 9/16th hollow hole punch and stamp your own out. You do not have to lube them. Or if you want you can lube them. Wool does not burn well, and their purpose is to protect the patch around the ball. Actually with a wad, the patches look like you could (and I have for kicks) shoot them again.



#21 frank

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 07:46 PM

Very interesting reading from a lot of experience. I am working up some hunting loads for my TC Renegade , a Lyman great Plains and a Pedersoli Jaeger, all in .54 cal. The first two have a nasty habit of destroying patches which seriously affects with the velocity factor. With 110 gr. loads of Goex FFG (soon to be replaced by Swiss as soon as FedEx arrives) I still get 1700 fps 12' from the muzzle. On the TC I have attached an old fella's best friend, a Wm. Malcom 3x scope. So far the scope is doing well and it does look "period" on a side lock. In checking my original store bought oiled patches, they measured .09 ", Wal Mart's pillow ticking measured out .12" and with a .530 ball they are a very tight fit with stiff but not excessive force required to set them. Hopefully a range test will prove an accuracy solution is at hand. The use of a wad behind a patched ball is intriguing and will most defintely be tried. Anyone have ideas on the REAL bullets? I have tried the 300 gr. with many dofferent lubs but none are satisfactory in my rifle. My brother shoots a .50 TC Ren. with REALs like a target rifle. I reckon each is a law unto itself. As a newbie, I thank each of you for your contributions to this forum, I have learned more in a few weeks here than in years on the range. Be safe.

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#22 cayugad

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 09:52 PM

For the .54 caliber I mold 300 & 380 grain REAL conicals. For my .50 calibers I mold both the 280 & 320 grain. I lube them with a homemade lube made of castor oil, beeswax and a little murphy's oil soap.

Here are my two favorite homemade concial lubes..


Beeswax 2 oz.
Castor Oil 8 oz.
Murphy's Oil Soap 1 oz.

Heat beeswax in a double-boiler system. In a separate microwave proof container, add the Castor oil and Murphy's oil soap together and mix it well. (cold). Once the beeswax is melted, heat the castor oil soap to hot. Normally 45 seconds will do it, but it depends on the microwave. Now add the hot oils to the beeswax still in the double boiler. It will clump up. Stir with a popsicle stick or spoon as the mixture heats up. When it fully melts there will be a scum that floats to the top and just won't mix in.

Be patient. DO NOT COOK THE MIXTURE. Once the solids are dissolved there is no need to heat further. Skim the scum off. Remove the mix from the heat. Now to make the lube creamy, add a teaspoon of Murphy's Oil Soap and stir vigorously. This last step makes the lube frothy and smooth. Carefully pour the hot mixture into waiting tins. I use Altoid tins. Allow to cool a half hour.

You will find that after this lube sets up it takes hot temperatures outside without going soft. If you like a softer lube, just heat it in the microwave and add a little more castor oil.


Another Great Solid Lube...

4 ounces of Castor Oil * you can buy this in 4 ounce bottles at Wal Mart..

1 ounce of bees wax melted

100 grains of liquid or solid Alox * I like to cut the solid and weigh out what I need Then melt it down.

Again, this makes an excellent hard lube and can be used as a patch lube as well.

Something I found with REAL conicals out of the 1-48 or 1-28 twist rifles. REAL = rifling engaged at loading. So you know the rifling is in the grooves. If you push them too hard you will get the conical to spin but skip at the same time and it makes for bad accuracy. Slow them down. I like to shoot them with 65-80 grains of powder and put a wad under them. The wad will help protect the bottom of the conical. Even with that small powder charge, they do a dandy job on deer. A gang I hunt with all shoot my 300 grain out of their Hawkins and they shoot A LOT OF DEER. Another person I know shoots my 380 grain out of his CVA Hunterbolt 1-28 twist with 80 grains of powder. He has taken both deer and black bear with them.
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#23 Russ

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Posted 01 October 2008 - 11:28 PM

For the .54 caliber I mold 300 & 380 grain REAL conicals. For my .50 calibers I mold both the 280 & 320 grain. I lube them with a homemade lube made of castor oil, beeswax and a little murphy's oil soap.

Here are my two favorite homemade concial lubes..


Beeswax 2 oz.
Castor Oil 8 oz.
Murphy's Oil Soap 1 oz.

Heat beeswax in a double-boiler system. In a separate microwave proof container, add the Castor oil and Murphy's oil soap together and mix it well. (cold). Once the beeswax is melted, heat the castor oil soap to hot. Normally 45 seconds will do it, but it depends on the microwave. Now add the hot oils to the beeswax still in the double boiler. It will clump up. Stir with a popsicle stick or spoon as the mixture heats up. When it fully melts there will be a scum that floats to the top and just won't mix in.

Be patient. DO NOT COOK THE MIXTURE. Once the solids are dissolved there is no need to heat further. Skim the scum off. Remove the mix from the heat. Now to make the lube creamy, add a teaspoon of Murphy's Oil Soap and stir vigorously. This last step makes the lube frothy and smooth. Carefully pour the hot mixture into waiting tins. I use Altoid tins. Allow to cool a half hour.

You will find that after this lube sets up it takes hot temperatures outside without going soft. If you like a softer lube, just heat it in the microwave and add a little more castor oil.


Another Great Solid Lube...

4 ounces of Castor Oil * you can buy this in 4 ounce bottles at Wal Mart..

1 ounce of bees wax melted

100 grains of liquid or solid Alox * I like to cut the solid and weigh out what I need Then melt it down.

Again, this makes an excellent hard lube and can be used as a patch lube as well.

Something I found with REAL conicals out of the 1-48 or 1-28 twist rifles. REAL = rifling engaged at loading. So you know the rifling is in the grooves. If you push them too hard you will get the conical to spin but skip at the same time and it makes for bad accuracy. Slow them down. I like to shoot them with 65-80 grains of powder and put a wad under them. The wad will help protect the bottom of the conical. Even with that small powder charge, they do a dandy job on deer. A gang I hunt with all shoot my 300 grain out of their Hawkins and they shoot A LOT OF DEER. Another person I know shoots my 380 grain out of his CVA Hunterbolt 1-28 twist with 80 grains of powder. He has taken both deer and black bear with them.



#24 Russ

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Posted 01 October 2008 - 11:35 PM

Hi,
Another question? Does cold weather effect the accuracy of lubed patches? I was told that the spit patch will expand and cause a velocity increase and shoot high. I guess meaning it adds to the speed of the round ball.

3:) Russ

#25 cayugad

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 06:30 PM

Not that I really notice with cold weather. But it is possible. Anytime you change something, it can effect accuracy. When I hunt in cold weather, I use a dry patch. I spritz with moosemilk and then hang the stip or lay it over some old window screen to dry. The oil is left in the patch but it is basically dry. I find that in cold weather it shoots real well with them.

As winter moves I, I will have to start testing that theory.
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#26 Coalman

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 06:26 AM

I love my traditional muzzleloaders. I have;
TC Hawkens percussion
TC Hawkens flintlock
TC New Englander

My favorite is the Hawken percussion. I rarely sway from my 90 grains of 2F and 350 grain maxi ball. There are very few fields where I live. A 50 yard shot in the woods is a long poke.

I believe the felt wad has improved each guns performance and have a felt wad in each speedloader.

We are going to hunt the Adirondacks of NY for the early ML season next week. Today we are getting together to make a little smoke and sight our guns in.

In NH our MZ season comes before gun season.

I love muzzle loaders.
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