Jump to content


Photo

Peta Members


  • Please log in to reply
16 replies to this topic

#1 Spirithawk

Spirithawk

    Never Logs Off

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,343 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 December 2008 - 04:20 PM

I've come to the conclusion that members of PETA are Petarded! Just my opininion. ;) :lol:

#2 Larry $

Larry $

    Totally Addicted

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,449 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 December 2008 - 06:27 PM

What took you so long Norm?
Elk: it's what's for dinner!

#3 Whitetiger

Whitetiger

    Totally Addicted

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,271 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:allentown PA

Posted 27 December 2008 - 08:06 PM

I could tell you what else they are but this is a family forum.

#4 PA RIDGE RUNNER

PA RIDGE RUNNER

    Life Member

  • Authors
  • 5,702 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 28 December 2008 - 08:34 AM

Peta and HSUS core membership are just that. What irks me so much is that they dupe little old ladies into giving large sums of money to a perceived cause which is in name only. Neither of these organizations give a hoot about animals, it is all about the cause. Even when they win a court case it only takes them minutes to vacate the area and the locals are left to deal with the results. You will not find a single person from either organization there to deal with the aftermath. They are gone to their next cause. Guess I'll quit on this subject before the blood pressure gets too high.
If God had a refrigerator would your picture be on it.
Remember the Ark was built by amateurs, the titanic by professionals.

#5 RobertR

RobertR

    Hunting Resource

  • Moderators
  • 312 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 28 December 2008 - 10:34 AM

I could ramble on and on about these echo groups but we would get no where.

On a some what similar subject that is killing three western states the wolf. Here is a resent article of a man who lost the family dog to a wolf. I know that no restitution would have been paid but I would have sent the echo groups a bill and the state fish and game just because.
We were working the area and seen the wolf that had attacked the dog the following morning.
A lot of these incidents never get told or reported and is more common than one thinks if you live here.
I want you to do some math. It's estimated that a single wolf could consume around 12 elk a year providing it was just elk. Now take into account there is approximately 1500 gray wolves in the tri-state region and if they are increasing at a rate of 25% to 33% a year. The three state elk population is around 350,000. At this rate there will be, give or take 1875 wolves next year. Guys we have been the endangered species from the start with this reintroduction of the gray wolf.

Article: Letter to the Editor.
Two views on a wolves

Jake's point of view.
My name is Jake. I am a yellow lab that resides in the beautiful Centennial valley for the past six years. I enjoy playing fetch, running with my mate Cecil, and being the best company my family could ask for. I was forced to leave the Centennial valley on December 8Th in the back of my owners truck. I died in the veterinary Hospital hours later.
Now let me tell you what happened. I came in contact with one of my relatives named the ''Big Bad Wolf''. I was minding my own business walking down the country road where I was viciously attacked by Big Bad. I was bitten many times in the neck and once in the flank. I was left for dead along the road. I was able to make my way about 100 yards to the closest ranch.
This is where I was found by my neighboring rancher laying in my own pool of blood dying. This is where my owner picked me up and rushed me to the hospital.
The owners view
I am Jake's owner. I am a life long resident of Montana and a rancher and a loving husband and father. My wife and I have lived in the valley for the past 15 years and have two children ages 13 AND 8.
Being an avid outdoorsman all of my life I had no idea of the damage the wolf can and has done without being controlled. Year after year the wolf if becoming a more common site in the land scape we live in. On December 8th I had a very close friend of mine die from injuries caused by a wolf. Yes my 10 year old yellow lab Jake. Jake was not only a dog but part of the family.
I believe it is time we the people who live with these animal's have the say of how they are controlled or managed. We are the ones that have to deal with them on a daily basis.
In closing I have a couple of questions I would like you to answer. Where were the wolf lovers when it was time to tell my children their best friend was viciously attacked and killed by a wolf ? Where were the wolf lovers when my children needed their tears wipe away ? Is the wolf worth all of this ? ''The Big Bad Wolf'' isn't just children's story anymore, he's for real.
Posted Image
I'M NOT AFRAID OF COMMITMENT I'VE BEEN HUNTING AND FISHING MY WHOLE LIFE!
Montana Hunting Discovering Montana

#6 REDGREEN

REDGREEN

    Hunting Resource

  • Moderators
  • 1,461 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Hunting, fishing,wood carving, waking up with a pulse

Posted 28 December 2008 - 02:51 PM

:blink: I always thought that PETA meant PEOPLE EATING TASTY ANIMALS! They are definately a work of art. I go with PERVERTED ECCENTRIC TERRORIST ASSOCIATION.

#7 Whip

Whip

    Always Here

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 412 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Nebraska
  • Interests:Long walks in the woods carrying heavy equpment in poor weather. I live to hunt...other than that I am a full-time PhD student in entomology.

Posted 28 December 2008 - 09:33 PM

A true hardcore Peta member wouldn't care much about that story because they are also against the ownership of pets. I like wolves, I like elk....and I love hunting them all.
Being a federal trapper I understand threats to livestock more than most...it is my job to prevent it. However, every rancher and landowner knows that they can legally shoot any predator if they, their family, or their property (including pets) is directly threatened. I guess I have little sympathy for a man who leaves his pet out to run around the country and then whines when it is killed.....get a kennel, a fence, or keep him in the house. Look on the bright side, the more problems there are with wolves, the closer we as hunters get to having a chance to hunt them and actually control the population. Win/win situation.
Sean Whipple
PSE staff
It's not a passion, it's an obsession. ~Mossy Oak

#8 RobertR

RobertR

    Hunting Resource

  • Moderators
  • 312 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 29 December 2008 - 07:42 AM

Whip you would have to live with these apex predators to understand. I don't believe the majority of the farming and ranching community is going to chain or kennel there stock dogs.
We are no different than most here living in the country side of Montana. In these wide open expanses we shouldn't have to confine are dogs and live in fear. Most of these dogs are outside dogs and warn us of any intrusion. There has been a few reports of dogs being killed while chained. Also you recently killed a lion. I have a friend who has a great story of his lion hunt. To make it short he got a big tom and him and the guide believe that this lion had been harassed by wolves at one time or another because the lion would not tree and stayed on the ground killing two dogs and injuring a third. To make this more interesting he shot the cat with a long bow. Which up here in certain areas if you have your hounds on a lion track and you cut wolf tracks you had better get them called back or your going to loose some dogs. A hounds baying is like a dinner bell to these non natives wolves. I could go on and on of how people are living in fear not know if there going to have a wolf problem but when.
The wolves will never be controlled until the states in question take over management from the feds. I guess I get a little defensive when wolves are involved.
Are Fish and Game Department has a few guidelines to follow using hounds in wolf country.

* check the area for wolf sign. Donít release hounds if there are fresh wolf tracks, a recent wolf kill, or wolves howling nearby.

* release hounds only on fresh mountain lion tracks to shorten the chase time.

* use bells on hound collars and yelling periodically to signal a human is with the hounds.

* run more hounds to discourage lone wolves from attacking dogs.

* use radio telemetry tracking collars to help relocate lost dogs quickly.

* howl to see if any wolves in the immediate area respond. If they do, hunt elsewhere.

* use protective dog vests. The vest may shield hunting hounds from a wolf attack long enough for the hunter to reach the dog before a wolf can kill it.

* use spiked collars. Spikes have helped reduce injuries in some wolf attacks on herding and guarding dogs in Montana
Posted Image
I'M NOT AFRAID OF COMMITMENT I'VE BEEN HUNTING AND FISHING MY WHOLE LIFE!
Montana Hunting Discovering Montana

#9 PA RIDGE RUNNER

PA RIDGE RUNNER

    Life Member

  • Authors
  • 5,702 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 29 December 2008 - 12:01 PM

Robert you are expressing exactly what I meant by the locals are left with the mess. The feds are afraid to do anything for fear of a law suit and the locals are left virtual prisoners in their homes while packs of wolves roam freely. I know that is a bit of an overstatement but serves to prove the point. I have respect for the Federal Trappers but I am sure that they must work within strict parameters of law and regulation. A certain wolf can be trapped but that is just a very small plug in a dam that is about to burst. There are just too many more wolves that will step into the trapped wolfs place. Too bad we can't ask the prey species their opinion on wolves.
If God had a refrigerator would your picture be on it.
Remember the Ark was built by amateurs, the titanic by professionals.

#10 Whip

Whip

    Always Here

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 412 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Nebraska
  • Interests:Long walks in the woods carrying heavy equpment in poor weather. I live to hunt...other than that I am a full-time PhD student in entomology.

Posted 29 December 2008 - 11:01 PM

I am an apex predator, and tend to think like one...so I also understand that a wolf is going to do what a wolf was born to do. I understand your feelings about wolves...I really do, and I certainly don;t intend to argue with your opinions. However, I have had my fair share of experience with them, and am not giving you an uneducated opinion. In fact I am more informed about wildlife biology, government policy, and game regulations than about any other subject. The fact remains that until humans showed up and substantially tipped the ecological scale, the wolf reigned supreme and deserves its spot in the food chain. I love ranching and range management (I am a landowner and come from a ranching family), but if you want to know the single most damaging thing in the environment it is human habitat destruction and invasive species (one example being cattle and livestock). After all, there were no wolf problems until humans showed up. After killing several hundred predators for the federal government this year, my views remain the same. The single best tool in preventing livestock depredation is educating the general public on the best ways to keep it from happening.

Yes, we do work within strick parameters of the law...and rightfully so. Killing indescriminately is what gets us into these kind of situations in the first place. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service grants federal trappers/wildlife specialists permits to take pest species including species protected by treaties and acts (except the ESA) that threaten livestock and/or health and human safety. People also need to understand that the breeding biology of a pack oriented canid is substantially different from other mammals. In a nutshell, the more you kill, the more you get. Kill an alpha, the betas breed....kill a beta, the whole pack starts breeding. Controlling a population is key, elimination is not an option. From a biological standpoint, if you are going to live amongst wild animals, especially predatory animals, and attempt to make a living raising an animal that is basically a natural foodsource to a predator....you are going to have trouble keeping them alive. Ranchers cannot expect to keep livestock and pets, let them roam free, and suffer no losses....it will never happen and it is ludicrous to think otherwise. I undertsand losing them is hard on the heart and the pocket book, but it is inevitable. I have flat out told ranchers they need to keep their dogs in (pets, not guards), pen their livestock, lower their stocking rate, quit overgrazing, fix their fences, and it falls on deaf ears. Then, when they lose something they complain rather than look at what they could have done to avoid the situation. We all have to do what we can within what is allowable by law and the help of some common sense. Ask any western NE rancher what does the most damage to his crops and property...he will probably tell you antelope and elk....lol. I hear noone (except the ranchers) complaining that we need to eliminate the elk for eating all that nice green alfalfa they planted or kill antelope for busting their fences. :) although I would be happy to assist.

I agree with you, wolves need to be controlled....even culled at times. But we also need to look at our own land use practices as well as our own ecological role before we get on the "kill them all" bandwagon.
Sean Whipple
PSE staff
It's not a passion, it's an obsession. ~Mossy Oak

#11 RobertR

RobertR

    Hunting Resource

  • Moderators
  • 312 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 30 December 2008 - 09:10 AM

We should not believe everything we read or hear for sure because some is just propaganda another wants one to believe.
For the majority in the tri-state region we only want some sort of management tool to keep the numbers in check that are out of control at this point.
The number one agenda for all parties is ''management'' not total elimination of any speicies, plat or animal.
I have read in Alaska that there was a study to see why the wolves were population at a high percentage. They did otopsies on females and found that the breeding rate was 90%. Meaning it was not the alphas just breeding. Before these wolves here were being shot they multiplied in the same way.
I can agree that some livestock people over grazing there ranges but this is part of what they deem as intense grazing. While it don't look good it actually benefits the plants and game.
It has been proven that deer and elk will both prefer grazed off ranges over tall matured vegetation because they get the new regrowth from grazed off plants that have a higher protein that they need. I will hunt where cattle have grazed before hunting where over matured grasses are rank and have lost some of there nutrition value.
As I said all parties push there own proaganda and here is a prime example but with a lot of facts know one wants to believe or hear.
Wolf Propaganda
Posted Image
I'M NOT AFRAID OF COMMITMENT I'VE BEEN HUNTING AND FISHING MY WHOLE LIFE!
Montana Hunting Discovering Montana

#12 PA RIDGE RUNNER

PA RIDGE RUNNER

    Life Member

  • Authors
  • 5,702 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 30 December 2008 - 10:22 AM

I have always admired the members of this forum for being able to differ in opinion and yet remain civil and friendly. I know that our discussion here will not solve the wolf situation and as I stated before the Anti organizations leave and the mess is in the lap of the locals. They care not a whit for the wolf, just the cause. Whip thank you for your very informed comments. One of them about elk and deer being the biggest problems for the rancher can be addressed by allowing legal hunting as a control either by just giving permission to hunt or by leasing the hunting rights. You and your fellow trappers are the only means of control for the wolf. I keep thinking of the California ban on Mt Lion hunting and the problems that ensued since that time. As I recall there has been 26 recorded attacks on humans since they kept records back in the late 1800s. What is alarming is that 13 of those 26 attacks have taken place since the ban on hunting was instituted just a few years ago. You can only react to specific situations much like law enforcement. The incident has to happen i.e. the deed must have already been done before you can even be contacted as a means of control. It is one thing if that incident is a pet or livestock but what if that incident involves human life or limb. That isn't so far fetched as it is bound to happen as we humans are by far the easiest prey out there.
If God had a refrigerator would your picture be on it.
Remember the Ark was built by amateurs, the titanic by professionals.

#13 Whip

Whip

    Always Here

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 412 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Nebraska
  • Interests:Long walks in the woods carrying heavy equpment in poor weather. I live to hunt...other than that I am a full-time PhD student in entomology.

Posted 30 December 2008 - 04:55 PM

Some of the facts in that article are very good and fit with the peer-reviewed literature I have. My only question is that since you can hunt and trap wolves is at least a couple of those states legally (they are considered the same as coyotes) and federal trappers are also in the mix.....how can we maintain a population any better? Federal trappers do not have limitations on how many animals we can kill in the instance of a pest species....so I would assume as many as can be killed are being killed. I can speak from experience that it is virtually impossible to eliminate coyotes no matter how many you kill...and wolves will continue to be a problem for ranchers as long as they are around. The attempt is basically to lower a population for calving season and then do the same in following years. I get frustrated too...just because I am a biologist doesn't mean I don't question decisions made by the administration. I can assure you all though...regardless of what happens....it will all work out one way or the other. Until then I will continue to do my best to get rid of pesky varmints that kill livestock :)
Sean Whipple
PSE staff
It's not a passion, it's an obsession. ~Mossy Oak

#14 TerryfromAR

TerryfromAR

    Hunting Resource

  • Moderators
  • 1,608 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Texarkana, TX
  • Interests:Hunting, fishing, spending time with my kids and wife, anything that gets me out of the house especially pertaining to my outdoor persuits. computers, technology, movies,

Posted 01 January 2009 - 07:59 PM

OK i'm kinda dual sided on this topic i feel that wolves have a right to live, but i think the numbers need to be controlled. If the wolves have been reintroduced by humans, humans need to step up and keep the numbers in a reasonable range so that livestock kills remain at a minimum and the game species numbers continue to flourish. We have to be good stuarts of our natural resources. My wife loves the mystique of wolves, our room is decorated with wolf and dragon(mine) decor, whether it be blankets, statues, paintings, or prints. I think that sometimes the majesty of wolves is a bit too romanticized but at the same time they are just another wild animal that has a right to roam free, though overpopulation can be a BIG problem especially when government regulations tend to limit our abilities to protect ourselves from the problems that can arise from too many of a species in too small of an area. With proper management techniques and hunting regulations/seasons the reintroduction of the wolf wouldn't be a big deal, but i do agree with the statement someone made about the regulation being delegated to the local/state wildlife authorities rather than the federal government, because as we all know the federal government will tend to wait 2 months before they make a decision on something like this. But that's just my opinion and i will admit i could be way off base. I don't live in an area that is even suggested to have wolves reintroduced, so i really haven't seen the problems first hand.
Semper Fi

#15 vcross

vcross

    Hunting Resource

  • Moderators
  • 396 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Lake Seminole, Georgia
  • Interests:Hunting, fishing

Posted 05 January 2009 - 07:08 AM

Just a thougt.....
If we all started eating vegetables only then we would need to cut some trees to provide a place to grow all these vegetables which would now not give a place for all the little furry animals to live.....

So it looks like we are actually doing PETA a favor by eating animals.......




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users