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Best Stabilizer?


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#1 Whistle Pig

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Posted 01 August 2009 - 04:29 PM

I'm looking for suggestions for my 6.5 Reezen. I was looking at the B-Stinger Sport Hunter and Specialty Archery's Featherlite 10. Preferably in Lost Camo.
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#2 Chrud

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Posted 01 August 2009 - 06:07 PM

I'm very happy with Stealth's stabilizers. Since switching to them last year, I've noticed I'm a lot steadier while at full-draw. I also seem to be able to move a lot smoother when at full-draw also.

Stealth stabilizers should be available in Lost Camo.

#3 Jeremiah

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Posted 01 August 2009 - 09:33 PM

I know B-Stinger is my next hunting stabilizer. :thumbsup:

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#4 RobertR

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Posted 02 August 2009 - 06:58 AM

I have used several different kinds of stabilizers, from pneumatic to carbon and I have been shooting a simms for about a year after loosing my R&R pneumatic or hydraulic stabilizer and I don't think the simms even compares for hand shock but it does reduce the noise. I do think any stabilizer helps not only in ballance and also stopping vibration.
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#5 Rowdy Yates

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Posted 02 August 2009 - 11:19 AM

Like Chud I like the Stealth. The Stealth stabs are what I use on my bows. I bought the B-Stinger sport hunter and tried it on my Drenalin and my Monster and it did do some sound dampening and it does put a weight forward setup. Unfortunately I found it not shrinking my groups or improving my shots any better than the Stealth. Persoanlly my recommedation is check out the Stealth stabs. The Stealth has an opening where you can screw in something to it. I add a Sims Stabilizer enhancer (the newest style) for added weight on the front and more noise reduction and I'm very happy with my results.

Edited by Rowdy Yates, 03 August 2009 - 07:21 AM.

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#6 mudduck

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 02:53 AM

I'm a no stabilizer kind of guy. Less junk hanging off the front of the bow for hunting. Out to 30yds, you will most likely not notice any difference, and why do we worry about the weight of a bow when one intends to add to it? Anyway, having said all that, my target bow has a stabilizer and all the other bells and whistles. I just like keeping my hunting rig clean and simple

#7 Jeremiah

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 08:16 AM

http://www.bowhuntin...issingOut.shtml

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#8 mudduck

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 12:07 PM

http://www.bowhuntin...issingOut.shtml



I would have expected nothing less from an article from the stabilizer makerPosted Image I have yet to have a deer stand still long enough to afford me more than 1 shot, and it certainly is not like a 3D course either, where I might fling 30 to 60 arrows on anafternoon. As I said before, out to 30 yds and under certain conditions maybe even 40yds,{although that distance is stretching it a bit} , most people will not even notice a difference. Clenching ones hand will have way more effect on accuracy than a stabilizer will

#9 Rowdy Yates

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 12:55 PM

I would have expected nothing less from an article from the stabilizer makerPosted Image I have yet to have a deer stand still long enough to afford me more than 1 shot, and it certainly is not like a 3D course either, where I might fling 30 to 60 arrows on an afternoon. As I said before, out to 30 yds and under certain conditions maybe even 40yds,{although that distance is stretching it a bit} , most people will not even notice a difference. Clenching ones hand will have way more effect on accuracy than a stabilizer will

Jeff I have to agree with you, I have seen couple of bowhunting videos where the hunter didn't have a stab on his bow and made an excellent shot. They were under 30 yard shots but deadly. I Will add they were all shooting a Mathews bow, well balanced.

I think if you practice without one then it might make a difference.

I know one time here recently I was trying different stabs on my Monster bow. I shot it at 40 yards with the Stealth 6"/plus Sims Enhancer , the B-Stinger 8", a Stealth 4" plus Sims Enhancer and nothing. The B-Stinger weight was too much for that setup for me with all the other weight from the other accessories. The 6" Stealth felt OK, the Stealth 4" felt better and no stab. felt amazingly very good after shooting all that weight plus I bulls eyed the target. My point is like what you were saying it's about good form "your form" and being consistent with it can make all the difference when hunting. I ended up putting the 4" Stealth plus Sims Enhancer on mainly to handle noise but to help with balance.

Edited by Rowdy Yates, 12 August 2009 - 01:13 PM.

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#10 Jeremiah

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 01:46 PM

I think the real problem, as the article eludes to, is that most people are using "stabilizers" that aren't. Meaning they are little more than glorified vibration dampeners that are not long enough, rigid enough, and/or not weight-forward enough to do anything to actually stabilize the shooter's shot picture at full draw. In those cases, I must whole-heartedly agree that the shooter might as well just take their "stabilizer" off and save on a little weight as it is doing little to nothing to improve their shooting ability.

Beyond that, I know a lot of guys who can stack'm at 30 and even 40 yards without a stabilizer. But, I've seen time and again when they are outfitted with the proper stabilizer for both them and their bow, their sight picture is even more stable at full draw regardless. Many elect to take that extra confidence/accuracy over shaving 10 ounces or so off the bow weight all day long.

To each their own, but I notice a huge difference in how my bows rotate around the Z Axis while drawing (and while at full draw) as well as how steady my hold is at full draw depending on what stabilizer is on it. It's simple physics, assuming that isn't an oxymoron. (For me, for hunting, in the neigborhood of 10" to 12" with several ounces of weight on the very end makes a difference worth carrying the extra weight.) That said, if an individual finds that their bow feels too heavy at full draw with a certain stabilizer then they will only be hurting themselves. I think it comes down to how physically strong the individual is as being the main determining factor in what stabilizer will actually stabilize their shot picture. (But, "going there" often leads some to the conclusion that you are, in essence, trying to say that they are a pansy which never seems to go over well. :lol: )

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#11 mudduck

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 02:10 PM

I think the real problem, as the article eludes to, is that most people are using "stabilizers" that aren't. (Meaning they are little more than glorified vibration dampeners that are not long enough, rigid enough, and/or not weight-forward enough to do anything to actually stabilize the shooter's shot picture at full draw.)

Hey, I know a lot of guys who can stack'm at 30 and even 40 yards without a stabilizer. But, invariably, I've seen time and again when they are outfitted with the proper stabilizer for them and their bow, their sight picture is even more stable at full draw regardless. Many elect to take that extra confidence/accuracy over shaving 10 ounces or so off the bow weight all day long.

To each their own, but I notice a huge difference in how my bows rotate around the Z Axis while drawing (and while at full draw) as well as how steady my hold is at full draw depending on what stabilizer is on it. (For me, for hunting, in the neigborhood of 10" to 12" with several ounces of weight on the very end.) That said, if an individual finds that their bow feels too heavy at full draw with a certain stabilizer then they will only be hurting themselves. I think it comes down to how physically strong the individual is as being the main determining factor in what stabilizer will actually stabilize their shot picture. (But, just try to tell someone that, in essence, they are a pansy and see how well that goes over. Posted Image )



I cannot believe all that stuff goes through your mind in a hunting situation. Perhaps in a target shooting setting, but not hunting. And lets discuss the difference. 30yds, Hunting rig, no stabilizer = less than 3 inch groups. With a stabilizer = less than 3 inch groups. One might need a micrometer to measure the difference. You said you know guys who can stack em at 30/40 yds with out a stabilizer, in a hunting context, how much better can it get than that? Target shooting is different than hunting

#12 Jeremiah

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 02:55 PM

I cannot believe all that stuff goes through your mind in a hunting situation. Perhaps in a target shooting setting, but not hunting. And lets discuss the difference. 30yds, Hunting rig, no stabilizer = less than 3 inch groups. With a stabilizer = less than 3 inch groups. One might need a micrometer to measure the difference. You said you know guys who can stack em at 30/40 yds with out a stabilizer, in a hunting context, how much better can it get than that? Target shooting is different than hunting


What's to think about? A less jittery sight picture is a less jittery sight picture. ;)

I have yet to come across an individual that doesn't shoot better when their sight picture is the best it can be for their level of shooting regardless of shot distance. (If they were stackin'm before, they're robinhoodin'm now. :lol: ) As I see it, indoor spots are shot at 19 meters or 20 yards, depending on the game. If a stabilizer can make all the difference there (and it absolutely does) how much more of a difference can it make when there is adrenalin and movement introduced in a hunting situation?

As to the thought process of a shot... It doesn't change for me just because it's an animal in front of me instead of a target. The only real difference is I'm usually breathing harder in the hunting situation. What can I say, I even remember to check my sight level before shooting even in a hunting situation. :lol:

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#13 Rowdy Yates

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 03:02 PM

I think it comes down to how physically strong the individual is as being the main determining factor in what stabilizer will actually stabilize their shot picture. (But, "going there" often leads some to the conclusion that you are, in essence, trying to say that they are a pansy which never seems to go over well. Posted Image )

You've done it now Posted Image them there is fighten words busterPosted Image .



Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image I wonder sometimes myself.

Seriously though I had this conversation with Jerry at South Shore Archery when I bought my B-Stinger. He said the same thing about building up muscle to use it. He recommended going much heavier and longer and I had to explain then this is a hunting only rig. I have never shot in any competition and don't intend to. I just want the best performance hunting bow from my shooting.
I guess I'm in search for the perfect rig . Posted Image

The B- Stinger isn't all that heavy but it is heavier than any other stab I have ever tried before and it is definitely weight forward. The Monster is already heavier than any other bow I have owned before and the B-Stinger just compounded the weight issue. Plus I was having some issues with the new Mathews arrow rest not staying tuned for me. It that influenced my opinion a bit since my accuracy was no better. Since then I replaced it with a QAD rest I had already and I'm more confident than ever with that bow but that another kettle of fish to boil.

Personally stabilizers have always been an questionable issue for me because you can't very easily test one out before buying it. The advertisements seem to say new and improved but are they really? I have tried a bunch since I started shooting compound hunting bows, I still consider myself somewhat of a novice but now I think this stabilizer is doing both stability and sound control.
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#14 Leo

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 05:30 PM

This is probably a much longer winded answer than you're looking for. I believe a simple "get that one" recommendation isn't going to cut it here.

Stabilizers correct torque more than anything else. In my honest opinion, the grip on the bow and how you grip it, primarily determine how badly you need a stabilizer. In other words the stabilizer helps reduce the effects of a poorly designed grip and an archers poor form grip technique. Many archers shooting from the ground, use a open hand grip, a stabilizer and a wrist sling to "catch" the bow as it tips forward after the shot. Obviously, the open hand grip is inherently more torque free. You're not adding hand torque by squeezing the grip. Letting the bow fall forward after the shot is easily repeatable. Honestly, I think everyone shoots better right off the bat this way. I need to point out, open hand archers often shoot much better with a stabilizer. I strongly believe, the reason is most often the bow grip itself. If the contact point of the bow grip itself is off center (extremely common in factory grips!) You will have a torque effect on the bow. Even if your hand is completely open when you release the arrow. The stabilizer helps correct for this. As far as the tipping forward effect of the stabilizer goes, it's very repeatable, but only on level ground. As a result, the accuracy effect of the bow tipping forward after the shot isn't noticeable on level ground. This can change when you shoot at a downward angle(ie. from a stand). How fast and how much the bow tips forward after arrow release is absolutely affected by the angle of the shot to level ground. It makes a difference. If you are shooting at a downward angle the bow simply doesn't have as far to tip forward nor will it tip forward as quickly. It is not just the "shortening" effect of range due to an angled shot affecting the accuracy of angled bowshots. You can compensate for this by practicing and sighting in at the exact height you plan to hunt. I'd mark my bowline so I'd know when my stand was at the practice height.

Contrary to popular marketing wisdom, drop away rests do not eliminate the effects of bow-torque. They change it some but they do not eliminate it. The nock still travels the path in the plane of the bowstring whether the rest drops or not. So please believe me, bow-torque is still very much a concern, even with a drop away rest.

In my experience a bow mounted quiver is another disaster waiting to happen. I don't shoot worth a darn with a quiver on the bow. It makes the bow extremely prone to torque slinging arrows left and right of intended impact. To compensate for this some archers use a stabilizer that is much heavier than they need. Yes, many bow mounted quivers are removeable and you can get them off easily. That way you can practice without it on. Also you can easily remove it and get it out of the way once you've taken the stand. That's a reasonable compromise if you only hunt from stands or blinds. If the possibility exists of sneaking up on game on the ground and taking a quick shot, a hip or back quiver is the best way to go.

A good rule to follow. Practice shooting with your setup exactly like it will be when you hunt.

So to get back to the original question of which stabilizer? (Yep, I'm actually going to answer this.)

If you are going to shoot primarily on level ground with an open hand grip and a wrist sling. You want the stabilizer that gives you the most weight forward bias that you can physically hold steady. The torque resistance will be maximized and the tipping forward action after the release is of little concern. That's the easiest repeatable shooting form and the extra weight reduces the contact center problems of a poorly designed grip.

If however you are going to be hunting from a stand shooting at a downward angle. You absolutely do not want a stabilizer with a heavy forward bias! What you want is the stabilizer that gets the bow to sit perfectly level in your grip without touching the bowstring. You want it to be able to put the bow in your left hand and point it at a level target. The bow should sit comfortably level in your left hand. Only then is it balanced correctly with the stabilizer (for hunting from a stand). I believe, getting the bow to this specific neutral balance gets you the very best accuracy when shooting at downward angles (out of a stand). You are sacrificing a small amount of left to right torque reduction but the bow will react less dramatically when taking shots at a downward angle. As a result you will get better accuracy when shooting out of an elevated stand.

Personally, I put a lot of emphasis on fixing the bow's grip itself. Frequently, IMHO, on factory grips, the curve below the shelf puts your bow hand much farther away from the shelf than it should be. I feel the top of your fist should be as close to level with the riser shelf as possible. The farther down my hand is on the riser away from that shelf (and the arrow for that matter) the harder that bow is for me to shoot. From left to right the contact point in your bow hand should be directly underneath the axis of the arrow. You strive to get the arrow rest adjusted so that it is directly in line with the natural path of travel of the arrow. A "true-center" adjustment helps. Doesn't it make sense that the primary center of your grip should fall in line with that? Personally, I make the grip modifications myself but there are aftermarket grips available that are much better than factory grips.

When you get the grip right, the stabilizer doesn't need to be nearly as heavy or forward biased. The bow simply doesn't torque as much to begin with.

A good bowgrip makes the neutral-balance technique I described earlier very effective.

The B-Stinger requires you to change bars and weights to achieve the balance you want. The disk and bar arrangement is unquestionably a solid design. It's essentially the least amount of total weight you can add with the maximum amount of torsional resistance you can get with that specific added weight. Good design. However, if they don't have the bar and weight combination you need to neutrally balance your bow, you're out of luck. If you are hunting on the ground or doing a lot of 3D shooting, this won't matter so much. In that case, you'll want a high forward bias with the minimum added weight. If that's what your plans are for using the bow this is the one I'd get.

The Featherlite is fully adjustable. You can change the position of the weights and you can remove or add weights. You should be able to achieve neutral balance pretty handily with this stabilizer. So if you plan on primarily stand hunting I'd get this one.

To me, each is more appropriate for specific circumstances than the other. They both have their place. Depends what you plan to do.

Don't forget about aftermarket grips! Based on my experience, a quality well designed grip is one of the very best improvements one can make to any bow.

Yikes! What a monster post! Oh well. Hope it helps.
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#15 mudduck

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 03:07 AM

Dear Mathews, I recently purchased a new top of the line bow from you for umpteen hundred dollars. I did so based on your advertising of having the best shooting bows on the market. Imagine my dismay when learning that although your bow shoots good, it will shoot better with a stabilizer. Why didn't you include one? You obviously must know this, as your engineers who designed the bow must have said something, like, " Hey this is a really good bow, but it really needs a stabilizer!". And on a side note, whats with these "harmonic dampeners"? So now that we have determined thay your bow needs a stabilizer to shoot really good, I have 3 questions. 1 is How Come You Don't Advertise This? 2. Why don't you make one? 3 Why oh Why For Petes Sake after spending umpteen hunnert dollars can't you recomend the one that will maximize the bows potentential and take the guess work and expense out of the equation for me so that I can begin to enjoy the best shooting bow on the market that I originally bought, that much sooner? I stick with my original thought, and that is, 30yds and under, most people will not notice a significant difference in shooting groups with or without a stabilizer. At longer distances, I will agree that a "True" stabilizer will indeed help consistency/accurracy at longer distances. Hand torque may be masked by the use of a stab at close ranges, but even a stab won't hide it a longer distances




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