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Mineral Blocks And Baiting


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#1 Spirithawk

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Posted 02 September 2009 - 09:19 PM

Here in Missouri it's illegal to put out bait for deer or turkeys. An area is considered baited up to 10 days after the food source is completely removed. You can get busted, and fined, for hunting in a baited area even if you weren't aware the bait was even there. Now that leads to some very frustrating points. It's legal to put out mineral blocks, that's not considered baiting. They can even be corn, accorn, or fruit scented. That's not considered baiting. You can even put out jells and sprays that are scented, again ok and perfectly legal. BUT, you dang well better read all the ingredients. If there is any fraction of them that has a REAL food source included, such as grain mixed into a mineral block or ground acorns anything in the spray, then guess what. That's considered baiting! Of course you can go right into Wal Mart or Bass Pro and buy all kinds of them just like that, but you better not get caught using them during hunting season! Another frustrating thing I have yet to get an answer to is just how big an area do they consider a baited spot covers? I mean if you put out a block with grain in it and hunt 200, 300, 400 or more yards away are you too close and thus in trouble? What if your several hundred yards away on the other end of the property? You're not hunting over bait but you're still drawing wildlife onto the property so I'm betting they'd have a fit over it. I sure wish they just say what they mean in plain English so there's nothing to misconstrue and if it's not legal to use it shouldn't it be illegal to sell it? I find it crazy too that you can hunt a corn field and that's not baiting, but if you dump a bushell of corn on the ground anywhere in the field then it is considered baiting, you're busted. Apples fall out of a tree you can hunt over it. Place just one apple under that same tree and you're busted! You can hunt a food plot, a semi permanent food source and that's not baiting. Put out any temporay food source, even on a regular basis, and it is baiting. Now you tell me? What in the heck is the differance? Just accross the state line into Arkansas baiting is legal. I sure wish Missouri would follow suite. Not that I'd particulary even want to, just that it would sure make the regulations a whole lot easier to understand! Just last year a game warden warned Jason and I that someone had put bait out in one of the food plots that Jason and I favoured hunting at the Drulry-Mincy Wildlife Area you've heard me talk about. Now, if we hadn't run into the ranger, we could have been fined for hunting the food plot and would only have known it was baited if we just happened to walk right up onto whatever the bait was, wherever it was. What was the pits, by some jerk baiting it, it put the whole food plot off limits for at least 10 days after the ranger removed the bait! Makes a fellow want to but his head against a tree!Posted Image

Edited by Spirithawk, 02 September 2009 - 09:23 PM.


#2 Jeremiah

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Posted 02 September 2009 - 09:40 PM

If you ever do figure out the difference between dumping out a pail of corn on the ground and hunting over a recently plowed corn field, for example, be sure to let me know.:huh:

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#3 mudduck

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Posted 03 September 2009 - 01:01 AM

I wish I could train those dang deer to hit my baitpile about 9:30 or quarter to 10 in the morning instead of 1:30 in the morning. Wouldn't lose any beauty sleep and wouldn't go through so many batteries on my spotlight.

#4 Phil

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Posted 03 September 2009 - 05:07 AM

In PA its illegal in areas North of I-80 and legal in many WMU's South of I-80.
If an area is found to have been baited then its unlawful to hunt within 1/4 mile in any direction(bear hunting can be extended to 1/2 mile if an established travel pattern to the bait can be detected)
...Here's the kicker according to the law.
You are responsible for having complete knowledge of the area you're hunting(I'll agree)....but if the ajoining property is posted and bait is found, you can still be fined if hunting your own property without any knowledge of the violation. Most PGC officers are very understanding in such instances but in a court of law the exact letter of the law will outweigh the intent of the law. No baiting in PA gets my vote.
*If lawyers can go back and try to bring lawsuits against gun manufacters for crimes commited using said firearms.....how about WallyWorld,etc...being held accountable for selling bait attractants where unlawful to use?Posted Image Posted Image


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#5 PA RIDGE RUNNER

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Posted 03 September 2009 - 06:23 AM

I have hunted in a state where baiting is legal. Infact I have hunted a few times over bait in that state and did not find it beneficial. When everyone baits the procedure lessens the effect to a point where it is ineffective. Baiting is most effective in locations where it is illegal. Now if the laws were written to be plainly understood the current plethora of lawyers would be out of work. I guess this is what happens when lawyers write the laws.
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#6 Rowdy Yates

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Posted 03 September 2009 - 08:10 AM

I wish I could train those dang deer to hit my baitpile about 9:30 or quarter to 10 in the morning instead of 1:30 in the morning. Wouldn't lose any beauty sleep and wouldn't go through so many batteries on my spotlight.



Now that's the truth. LOL

We can bait here in Ohio. We put out corn and mineral lick and trophy rocks, etc. but never really see any thing but squirrel and chipmunks on it. LOL The mineral licks and trophy rocks do get hit and the real purpose of those items are to grow some big antlers and strong deer.

Now if you consider hunting around white oak trees when they are dropping the acorns baiting then I'm guilty. LOL Acorns and other natural mast crops are better from experience. But is that baiting??? Or hunting over artificial scrapes and tree rubs is that a type of baiting? Using scent attractants is that baiting? The laws don't really make any sense any more when they consider baiting.

Edited by Rowdy Yates, 04 September 2009 - 07:26 AM.

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#7 Spirithawk

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Posted 03 September 2009 - 09:58 AM

Posted Image [quote name='Phil' date='01 September 2009 - 10:07 AM' timestamp='1251976061' post='1329072']
*If lawyers can go back and try to bring lawsuits against gun manufacters for crimes commited using said firearms.....how about WallyWorld,etc...being held accountable for selling bait attractants where unlawful to use?Posted Image Posted Image


[/quote]


That's one of my points exactly Phil. I feel like it's kind of entrapment. Here will sell you this sure fire deer lure so you can go out and get busted using it!Posted Image

[Quote Jerimiah;
If you ever do figure out the difference between dumping out a pail of corn on the ground and hunting over a recently plowed corn field, for example, be sure to let me know]
Exactly bud, it just makes your head hurt trying to make sense of their reasoning....or lack there of!

I'm not saying one way or another whether baiting is good or not. I'm just trying to make the point that the regulations are written in such a way that a person could put out something, he thinks is perfectly legal, and as a result end up in real seriouse trouble. That, or someone else do it, you hunt too close unknowingly and have to pay a heavy price for what someone else did. And if it's not legal to use then I don't think it should be legal for stores like Wal Mart and Bass Pro to sell. To me that's nothing short of entrapment. Same goes for electronic game calls. They are highly illegal in Missouri for deer and turkeys, but you can go into most any store that sells hunting stuff and guess what? They sure have a nice selection of them on the shelves. They could argue I guess that folks can use them in states where they are legal but I think the stores should have to put signs up warning they are illegal WHERE BEING SOLD! It pays to get a regulations book and read that puppy cover to cover but then you need a lawyer to exsplain it to you. Posted Image You just might be surprised the stuff they slip in there that really isn't common knowledge yet things you're much better off knowing and can sure save you a lot of grief if you make yourself aware of them. For instance here in Missouri, lets say you own a buiseness just accross the state line into Arkasas as many people here do. Lets say for buiseness reasons you then license your vehicle in Arkansas. Again, many people do just that, perfectly legal. But guess what? According to the Missouri Conservation Dept, even though your home is in Missouri and you live here, get your mail here, and have a Missouri driver's license, since your vehicle is licensed in Arkansas you are considered by them a resident of that state! But, buy a tag in Arkansas and your in trouble because they have brains enough to know you actually live in Missouri. Buy the tag in Missouri and you're in trouble because the MDC is ignorant enough to insist you're a resident of Arkansas. It's a no win situation. I was told they let it slide as long as you only hunt in one state but, as Phil pointed out, try exsplaining that to the judge as you are being sentenced! I know I started this thread about the ignorant way laws are written concerning baiting but really there are many hunting regulations that will drive you nuts trying to understand. Posted Image

Edited by Spirithawk, 03 September 2009 - 10:04 AM.


#8 Jeremiah

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Posted 03 September 2009 - 04:56 PM

...how about WallyWorld,etc...being held accountable for selling bait attractants where unlawful to use?Posted Image Posted Image


I'll play "counter-lawyer"...

The sentence directly before what you quoted (Page 17 this year in the PA Hunting and Trapping Digest... concerning it being each hunter's responsibility to know their hunting area) states that as long as "bait" such as natural food, salt, chemical, or minerals and their residue is cleared out of an area at least 30 days prior to a hunt that it's perfectly legal.

So, in fact, PA hunters anywhere are absolutely, by law, allowed to both purchase and use these products provided they follow the current regulations. Sporting Goods stores can no more be held liable for the purposeful, illegal misuse of any product they sell than a spoon manufacturer can be held liable for more than 50% of Americans being obese. (Now, the "fast food" and "prepared meal" industries... That's another topic. I believe they know exactly what they are doing just like R.J. Reynolds did. :P )

Personally, I have never used and/or placed any of these products or any "bait", natural or otherwise, at any time of the year to hunt white-tail. (Generally, I don't even use "deer lure" urine-type products. I try to simply be a "zero" when I hunt... No odors, not even cover scent.) I simply find the fact that nobody has ever been able to offer a rational explanation to resolve the inherent quandary of my first reply to this thread very interesting.

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#9 Chrud

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Posted 03 September 2009 - 05:28 PM

I consider "bait" to be anything that is only used to attract/lure an animal to your location, in this case whitetails. Bait piles, attractant scents, calls or rattling horns, etc. I don't really consider a food plot to be bait because it can have some health benefits to whitetails, even though it does attract them to your location.

As for mineral blocks, I think I've got them figured out. My mineral sites are always hammered and have amazing deer sign, but I never really see any whitetails using them during the hunting season. Thanks to my trail camera, I've made a pretty interesting discovery. The deer tear them up pretty much all summer. However, as soon as the calendar turned to August, the number of deer, the quality of deer using the mineral and the daylight activity on the mineral sites all began to decline week-by-week. The last couple weeks has been mostly night time photos of does, fawns and an occasional small buck or two. I did move my camera about 8 yards and now have it pointed on my food plot (the mineral site by my food plot is along a small ATV trail about 18 yards or so in front of my stand). In just a couple days, I had 7 different bucks at all times of the day on my food plot. So they are still there, just not using the mineral site much anymore. I really like mineral for the benefit of the deer and for trail camera pictures in the summer, but they are not a great choice if you are hoping to use them as a "bait pile" for hunting.

Ifyou ever do figure out the difference between dumping out a pail ofcorn on the ground and hunting over a recently plowed corn field, forexample, be sure to let me know.:huh:


They both serve the same purpose, I have no problem with hunters who bait deer legally.

However, hunting a recently picked/plowed corn field is much easier to hunt than hunting over a pile of corn. :peace: You should make a trip to Wisconsin sometime and let me show you. :D

#10 Spirithawk

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Posted 03 September 2009 - 05:30 PM

I'll play "counter-lawyer"...

The sentence directly before what you quoted (Page 17 this year in the PA Hunting and Trapping Digest... concerning it being each hunter's responsibility to know their hunting area) states that as long as "bait" such as natural food, salt, chemical, or minerals and their residue is cleared out of an area at least 30 days prior to a hunt that it's perfectly legal.

So, in fact, PA hunters anywhere are absolutely, by law, allowed to both purchase and use these products provided they follow the current regulations. Sporting Goods stores can no more be held liable for the purposeful, illegal misuse of any product they sell than a spoon manufacturer can be held liable for more than 50% of Americans being obese. (Now, the "fast food" and "prepared meal" industries... That's another topic. I believe they know exactly what they are doing just like R.J. Reynolds did. Posted Image )

Personally, I have never used and/or placed any of these products or any "bait", natural or otherwise, at any time of the year to hunt white-tail. (Generally, I don't even use "deer lure" urine-type products. I try to simply be a "zero" when I hunt... No odors, not even cover scent.) I simply find the fact that nobody has ever been able to offer a rational explanation to resolve the inherent quandary of my first reply to this thread very interesting.



You are a wise man oh great Wizard of Oz.Posted Image You are quite right in that any food source is legal as long as it has been removed the proper amount of time before the area is hunted. Plus a photographer could use bait year around though it would upset any other persons plans for hunting anywhere near. Thus it's perfectly legal for the stores to sell them. ( I guess by the same token it could be said that the electronic game calls are just sold to photographers too. Another point that you brought up though is one that Jason and I often discuss in depth. We've found that introducing some of these miricle deer attractants, such as C'mere Deer, to an area can actually spook deer. It just don't belong in their living room and they know it! I think we've pretty much determined that the very best situation while hunting is to have everything, sight, sound and smell, as natural everyday normal as possible. Often we even refrain from using a deer call. Look at it this way, if you come home and there's an odd new smell in the house, a strange sound from something or someone, or just something that looks out of place, then you are going to notice it, your brain goes on alert and you look for the reason why. Same with deer, that patch of woods you're hunting is their home and trust me, they know it pretty darn well. They know what belongs, what's normal and what's not.

Edited by Spirithawk, 03 September 2009 - 05:33 PM.


#11 Phil

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Posted 05 September 2009 - 05:54 AM

I'll play "counter-lawyer"...

The sentence directly before what you quoted (Page 17 this year in the PA Hunting and Trapping Digest... concerning it being each hunter's responsibility to know their hunting area) states that as long as "bait" such as natural food, salt, chemical, or minerals and their residue is cleared out of an area at least 30 days prior to a hunt that it's perfectly legal.

So, in fact, PA hunters anywhere are absolutely, by law, allowed to both purchase and use these products provided they follow the current regulations. Sporting Goods stores can no more be held liable for the purposeful, illegal misuse of any product they sell than a spoon manufacturer can be held liable for more than 50% of Americans being obese. (Now, the "fast food" and "prepared meal" industries... That's another topic. I believe they know exactly what they are doing just like R.J. Reynolds did. Posted Image )

Personally, I have never used and/or placed any of these products or any "bait", natural or otherwise, at any time of the year to hunt white-tail. (Generally, I don't even use "deer lure" urine-type products. I try to simply be a "zero" when I hunt... No odors, not even cover scent.) I simply find the fact that nobody has ever been able to offer a rational explanation to resolve the inherent quandary of my first reply to this thread very interesting.


LOL !....you're right Jeremiah....now if we really want to dot the i's & cross the t's, I'd say everyone here is a lawbreaker ...question to clarify this; "have you ever exceeded the posted speed limit on your way to go hunting?"Posted Image
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#12 TerryfromAR

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 06:38 AM

I may have a differing opinion than some people on things here but that's what makes this board so great, we can disagree and not get into a shouting match. In Arkansas It's perfectly legal to walk 5 yds from your stand and dump out a bag of corn, or cut a few apples open and toss them on the ground or put out anything that you think might draw the deer in except on WMA's.... I've given up on it in recent years... Because, I don't see deer even if I use bait... why waste the money? I'm switching up tactics and trying to hunt the areas that show movement through them that way I know there's atleast a chance of seeing one.. Now there are 3 places I am hunting this year, and I'm gonna hunt hard this year to see if my luck improves.

On the subject of residency, I really wish some of the bordering states would reach an agreement because I live right on the border of Ar and Tx.... and honestly I can't afford a Tx out of state license. There are alot of places I could hunt in Tx that are closer to my house than the places I'll be hunting in Ar this year. But I guess that is a matter of opinion though.
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