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I Had An Idea


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#1 Honky Cat

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 09:32 AM

On my drive home today I was thinking about BP rifles. I was thinking how nice it would be if there was a breech loading BP rifle that you could drop a couple pellets into with the slug in front and compact it into the bore by pushing the bolt forward.

It isn't for convenience but cleaning. I like the way an open breech can be so easily swabbed.

Then I thought, wouldn't be really easy to machince an inch long cartridge shaped primer holder that could be placed in any gun that you could then muzzle load with BP?

I know there is a science to the expanding brass sealing gases from going backward. But a real tight fit with some heavy lube might work.

I don't have the time to search the net for this Item if it exists yet. And I don't think Ohio would let you hunt with it.

It seems reasonable to me however. Comments welcomed and If anyone works in a machine shop and wants to send me one I'll pay to try it.Posted Image
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#2 PA RIDGE RUNNER

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 07:01 PM

To my knowledge using any pellets other than American Pioneer Sticks you are told not to seat the bullet too tight as to crush the pellets. Your thought of an invention may put too much pressure on the pellets if they had to push the bullet ahead of them. If you pushed the bullet in before the pellets were inserted behind then most likely the bullet would not be touching the pellets. This is a dangerous situation as the bullet must be sitting firmly on the powder to prevent the bullet becoming a barrel obstruction. I suppose with a great deal of practice you could get the bullet set at the precise distance so it would be sitting on top of the pellets when loaded.
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#3 cayugad

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 11:19 AM

I think you are wanting a Sharps original rifle. Invented by Christian Sharps who worked for the Harpers Ferry Arsenal. The Sharps was a drop block design .52 caliber rifle. To load you pulled down on the block release leaver which opened the block. Prior to the paper cartridge you push a .52 caliber 475 grain conical into the breech to the set point. You then filled the back of the breech up with black powder FFg. When you closed the breech you then had a set load. Normally it was a 50 grain charge you had. That was the standard load.

With the invention of the paper cartridge, you inserted the cartridge into the breech leaving the twisted end of the cartridge sticking out of the back of the breech. When you closed the breech it cut the back end of the paper cartridge off. You then turned the rifle to the side to dump the remains of the paper and powder, capped the rifle, cocked the hammer and were set to go.

Sharps later has the metal cartridge with the hole in the back where the powder was exposed, and of course from there it went to the actual invention of the metal cartridge and the trap door models.

The amazing thing about the sharps was it was accurate out to 800+ yards. There is the story of Colonial Hirum Berdan who organized the Berdan Sharp Shooters. These were a group of men who were the best shots that could be found. When he was trying to sell the idea of the sharps rifle to President Abraham Lincoln one day. The men he trained were shooting targets at 500 yards. Even the President shot the rifle leaning off a sapling and was amazed at the accuracy of the rifle. To finish the demonstration Colonial Berdan had them put a drawing of Jefferson Davis (life size) out at 800 yards. He then announced he would shoot the picture at that distance. A senator in the crowd suggested he shoot Davis in the eye. Berdan took the shot, the drawing was recovered and there was a hole through the right eye of the drawing. Lincoln then said that he would spend the money on the production of the Sharps rifle.


A very interesting idea you have though.
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#4 Honky Cat

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 12:57 PM

I ran the idea past my dad. Who has 30+ years of fabricating experience with the Air Force.

He told me that at his age, he wouldn't want to make anything harder and that buying cartridges is fine with him.

After that he expressed some concern that the primer holder would get stuck in the breech if not made from the ideal steal which he could not specify based on his experience.

I figure most people would rather own two guns than use the drop-in peice to shoot BP from a cartridge gun. And most likely the ODNR would not allow hunting with a 20 gauge that is loaded with BP because it would be hard to see the difference (until you shot) and people might take advantage of that.

I'm not trying to say that there is a need for this, it's just that I'm a tinkerer that can''t leave well enough alone sometimes. Posted Image
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