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Innovative Technologies Belted Magnum Collet Resizing Die


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#1 Leo

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 08:44 PM

I was given about 80 once fired 300WBY brass. It was all the Weatherby factory stuff which is Norma brass. Darn good stuff and really expensive. The problem was I couldn't reload ANY of it. The empties wouldn't chamber in my rifle! I tried full length sizing with hard contact on the shell holder. Didn't work. I finally figured out the cases were all swollen just in front of the belt and even full length resizing just doesn't fix this on belted mags.

Any how, to cut to the chase. I found a company that makes a collet die that is specifically designed to fix "belt bulge". The company is Innovative Technologies. Using Innovatives collet die, I resized 20 of the brass I inherited.

My first attempt using the collet die failed and I was pretty upset(this thing wasn't cheap) until I looked at my sizing die and figured out it was set up to only partial resize. Then I was really mad at myself! Never ever only partial resize someone else's brass! What a boneheaded mistake! Changed the die setup to do a true full length resize and bingo the collet die fixes this previously unusable brass! It did exactly what I needed it to do. Fixed all 20 of them. This is gonna keep me busy for a while that's for sure.

A note of caution here. The collet die does change case length slightly. So you better check case length after using the collet die.

The top of the die serves as a gage to determine if the area in front of the belt requires resizing. On these inherited cases the belt sits about 3/8" away from the back of the die! My own once fired brass drops right in. I checked some of the stuff I've reloaded three times and noticed a small gap between belt and die end.

For me anyway looks like Innovative's Collet die is gonna be pretty darn useful.

You can only get them directly from here.

Innovative Technologies

If you reload any belted mag cartridges this thing is worth having!
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#2 McBruce

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 06:46 AM

Great info Leo
Thanks
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#3 PA RIDGE RUNNER

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 09:30 AM

That bulge is the result of a few possibilities. One could be the result of a slightly oversized chamber. Upon firing, the body of the case and the neck are pushed out by pressure and the rear of the case is pushed back. This results in a thin spot ahead of the belt. I would suggest that the inside of the case be checked to see if a crack is developing at the bulge spot. This cqn be done with a paperclip or similar piece of wire straightened and a 90 degree bend put in the tip. You can then draw the wire up the case and it it catches the case is unsafe to shoot again. There is a strong possibility that the case will separate at the bulge and the result is a stuck case in the chamber that has no head.
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#4 Leo

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 09:07 PM

That bulge is the result of a few possibilities. One could be the result of a slightly oversized chamber. Upon firing, the body of the case and the neck are pushed out by pressure and the rear of the case is pushed back. This results in a thin spot ahead of the belt. I would suggest that the inside of the case be checked to see if a crack is developing at the bulge spot. This cqn be done with a paperclip or similar piece of wire straightened and a 90 degree bend put in the tip. You can then draw the wire up the case and it it catches the case is unsafe to shoot again. There is a strong possibility that the case will separate at the bulge and the result is a stuck case in the chamber that has no head.


I did the "feeler" wire trick. Thanks for suggesting it. There appears to not be any cracks. Brass is pretty resilent stuff so it will take a good stretch or two. I strongly suspect that if this brass were sufficiently weakened it would have cracked when run through the collet die.

One thing I've noticed using the gage on the back side of the die is that brass that was only fired in my gun seems to develop a slight bulge in front of the belt after 3 or 4 loadings. In the past when this brass no longer chambered I simply deemed it as "DONE". Pretty darn frustrating to only get 3 or 4 loadings out of a brass. Now with this collet die I can fix that problem and get a lot more loadings out of my brass. I strongly suspect my accuracy will be more consistent if I make sure that pre-belt dimension is always right.
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#5 Innovative

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Posted 14 November 2009 - 12:31 PM

Leo,
Hi . . . . I'm the guy that designed the Belted Magnum Collet Resizing Die. I just wanted to remind shooters out there that this unique resizing die requires reading the directions . . . . something that I don't always do myself. Unlike other companies that manufacture reloading tools, you can contact me anytime (and very easily) by phone or email, and you'll never have to discuss a technical question with my secretary or some guy in shipping.

One of my customers told me about this forum, and he suggested that this I add a few words about our products related to this post. I've spent decades designing reloading tools and I enjoy helping shooters. Belted cases commonly develop a bulge just above the belt, and logical thinking alone often leads shooters to the wrong conclusion about its cause. Read my website and you'll see the most complete (and accurate) description of the problem anywhere.

Case head separation is another matter that's related to the case bulge. I recently designed a Digital Headspace Gauge that totally solves this problem.

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This new gauge works on ALL different rifle calibers. It shows the exact clearance (at the shoulder) that YOUR handloads will have in YOUR particular chamber. Very simple . . . . just press one button, and it compares your handloads to one of your fired cases. This is the most accurate way to adjust your die height - without guessing. It is very common to find handloads with their shoulder pushed back way too far. The shoulder of your handloads should be set back no more than .002" for a perfect fit. Shooters that just resize the neck also need to know how far to bump the shoulder to prevent case head separations.

Visit our website at www.larrywillis.com and check it out.

- Innovative

#6 Leo

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Posted 14 November 2009 - 01:14 PM

Leo,
Hi . . . . I'm the guy that designed the Belted Magnum Collet Resizing Die. I just wanted to remind shooters out there that this unique resizing die requires reading the directions . . . . something that I don't always do myself. Unlike other companies that manufacture reloading tools, you can contact me anytime (and very easily) by phone or email, and you'll never have to discuss a technical question with my secretary or some guy in shipping.

One of my customers told me about this forum, and he suggested that this I add a few words about our products related to this post. I've spent decades designing reloading tools and I enjoy helping shooters. Belted cases commonly develop a bulge just above the belt, and logical thinking alone often leads shooters to the wrong conclusion about its cause. Read my website and you'll see the most complete (and accurate) description of the problem anywhere.

Case head separation is another matter that's related to the case bulge. I recently designed a Digital Headspace Gauge that totally solves this problem.

Posted Image

This new gauge works on ALL different rifle calibers. It shows the exact clearance (at the shoulder) that YOUR handloads will have in YOUR particular chamber. Very simple . . . . just press one button, and it compares your handloads to one of your fired cases. This is the most accurate way to adjust your die height - without guessing. It is very common to find handloads with their shoulder pushed back way too far. The shoulder of your handloads should be set back no more than .002" for a perfect fit. Shooters that just resize the neck also need to know how far to bump the shoulder to prevent case head separations.

Visit our website at www.larrywillis.com and check it out.

- Innovative



Thanks Larry,

I actually did read the directions before I used the die. I used to actually write directions for products myself so I take them seriously. My mistake was assuming I had my resizing die set up for full length. Your directions clearly state to do a full length resizing prior to using this die. And that's what I thought I did. I quickly discover MY mistake and made sure my die was doing a full length resizing. Then your product worked brilliantly because surprise I was actually using it like I was supposed to.

So far I've reworked over $60 worth of brass I thought I'd never be able to use. I am not done yet reworking everything I have but I'm quite certain this product will have more than paid for itself by the time I'm done.

Count me as a happy customer!
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#7 PA RIDGE RUNNER

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Posted 14 November 2009 - 06:04 PM

Fortunately Leo you do not do what I do when I deem a case not capable of reloading. I take either a hammer or a pair of pliars and crush the neck and shoulder. I do this for three reasons 1. I am not tempted to reuse it myself 2. I dont want anyone else to try either such as some one at a recycling center and 3. I shoot some wildcat cartridges that have a headstamp of something different than what they actually are. I have never discarded a belted case because of a bulge but have for a split neck. Also Many thanks to our new friend Larry for his good imput.

Edited by PA RIDGE RUNNER, 14 November 2009 - 06:07 PM.

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#8 RobertR

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Posted 14 November 2009 - 08:42 PM

This is all great advise and I may have to get me one of these collet resizing dies because with the 300 H&H and the 257 Weatherby Mag it might extend the number of times a case is reloaded. Don't despair if you don't catch a case that is cracked and separates after being fired. Depending on the caliber use the right size tap that will not swell the case but threads in enough to hold the tap and I recommend a fine thread tap but a course tap can be used. Just screw it in then use a cleaning rod to knock the case out.
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#9 Leo

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Posted 14 November 2009 - 10:44 PM

This is all great advise and I may have to get me one of these collet resizing dies because with the 300 H&H and the 257 Weatherby Mag it might extend the number of times a case is reloaded. Don't despair if you don't catch a case that is cracked and separates after being fired. Depending on the caliber use the right size tap that will not swell the case but threads in enough to hold the tap and I recommend a fine thread tap but a course tap can be used. Just screw it in then use a cleaning rod to knock the case out.


A really sweet thing is you just need one of these dies. It will work for both of those cartriges.

Edited by Leo, 14 November 2009 - 10:45 PM.

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