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Safeties, Safe Or Not?


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#1 Spirithawk

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 03:37 PM

Ok guys, I'd apreciate your feedback on another issue that I and another fellow have a disagreement over. He swears that firearms, such as my Kel Tecs, are unsafe because they only have hammer block safeties. That hammer block safeties are designed for stupid lazy people. I say, that if that is so, then the majority of double actions of any manufacturer, would have to be considered unsafe as well and there must be a lot of stupid lazy owners in the world. Basicly he just doesn't like "Plastic Guns" and likes to nit pick. He says that with guns such as my Kel Tecs, loaded and carried in a pocket, the trigger could be pulled by someone who threw their keys in the same pocket and went to pull them out. I say that regardless of the type of safety, it is the responsibility of the person handling the firearm to keep it safe and not to do something as stupid as put their keys in the same pocket as a loaded firearm. I also pointed out that I'd rather have a double action, with a hammer block safety in my pocket, knowing the remote chance the trigger could be pulled but only if I did something stupid, than a loaded anything with one in the chamber and the safety accidently switched off, forgotten to engage, or mechanicly failed. Also that when it hits the fan I like the fact that I can draw and fire without having to fumble for a mechanical safety. I don't see that as an excuse to handle the firearm unsafely, nor as being lazy, but in a self defense weapon an edge that could save your life. I can see how that split second just might make the differance in living or dying. What say you?

Edited by Spirithawk, 01 November 2010 - 03:43 PM.


#2 PA RIDGE RUNNER

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 06:46 PM

Any safety on any gun is only a layer deep. By that I mean we can gain a small degree of confidence with a safety on a gun. I do not believe we should come to rely on any safety. I agree that a safety makes any firearm safer but not safe. All forms of safetys are mechanical and can fail. I have a friend that carrys a 45 auto with the hammer at full ###### and the safety on. I mentioned it to him once and he said "look every bolt action rifle is carried the exact same way and we think nothing of it" I had to agree with his logic but it looked unsafe.
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#3 Jeremiah

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 08:47 PM

I used to carry a 9mm auto with a typical thumb safety in an IWB holster when I first acquired my CCW. On several occasions I found that the safety had disengaged itself at some point over the course of the day. That made for a gun that was actually less "safe" than my Glock for three reasons...
1) I simply thought the gun was on safe when it wasn't.
2) The Glock requires a full finger wrap around the trigger for it to fire. Something such as a key can brush along the side of the trigger all day long and the pistol is never going to fire unless the spring-loaded tab in the very center of the trigger is fully depressed.
(3) The Glock firing pin is not actually at the ready (fully tensioned or in the correct position) until the trigger is being fully depressed for firing. (So, unlike my 9mm with the safety inadvertently disengaged, it wouldn't fire even with an unexpected jolt.)

I can't really speak much about other "safety-less" pistols as my personal carrying experience with these has always been Glock. But, I generally just change the subject whenever someone brings it up. (Just too much other good stuff to do than argue, most of the time. I must be getting old. :P :lol: )

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#4 Whitetiger

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 09:02 AM

I carry a CZ 75 compact in 9 mm. It has the internal safety and a manual safety. I cant engage the manual safety unless the hammer is cocked. The internal safety keeps it from going off if carried with a round in the chamber. It also has a longer trigger pull when the hammer is down as a secondary measure to prevent an accidental fire when carrying with a round chambered but hammer down. You'd have to rip your keys out in order to get that trigger to go off. I like it. I prefer carrying with a round in the chamber because lets face it, if you have to draw down chances are most likely, your already in a pickle and taking the time to chamber a round could be hazzardous to your health. And I practice cocking the hammer back with my finger while drawing my CZ so I dont have to worry about the longer trigger pull. This is the only pistol I've owned so I cant comment on the others. I would love a pocket Glock for summer time carrying. I forgot to mention that I use a slide holster and a shoulder holster so the trigger is always covered up.

Edited by Whitetiger, 02 November 2010 - 11:41 AM.


#5 Spirithawk

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 11:22 AM

I like the multiple safety systom on the Springfield XD's but I tend to think simple is best. The less to fail or go wrong. My PF-9, and P-32, have been tested beyond what most weapons go through. They've even been put through some pretty impressive military tests. The only, and I do mean only, way for one to go off is if the trigger is pulled. With the long trigger pull, it either has to be done deliberately or through extreme negligence. In an emergency situation, all I have to think about is aiming and pulling the trigger. To me that adds to the peace of mind a self defense weapon should provide. I too have had a variety of handguns, and long guns, with manual operated safeties that mysteriously got switched off. A few where that was a real problem as it happened often. It doesn't take much, just brushing up against or bumping into something. One where just sliding out of the holster would switch it off. You can bet I didn't keep them long! To me that is much more scary than the slim chance the trigger will get pulled on my Kel Tecs. I was very choosy in the types of holsters I use for them though. In my mind, a proper holster should be considered part of any hand guns safety systom. If you intend to carry in a pocket a good pocket holster is the only safe way to do so.

Edited by Spirithawk, 02 November 2010 - 11:24 AM.


#6 mudduck

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 04:31 PM

My state has had it's carry law for about 8 years or so, about a hundred thousand permits, and about every conceivable type and model being carried, and I have yet to hear about an accidental discharge. There may have been some, but in this liberal Nancy state, I'm sure it would have been front page news. I'm sure there is a statistical chance it will happen, just as there is a chance I will get hit by a meteorite. It sounds to me like your friend either has a fear of firearms, or a bias against "plastic" guns, or most likely, both.

#7 Spirithawk

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 04:57 PM

My state has had it's carry law for about 8 years or so, about a hundred thousand permits, and about every conceivable type and model being carried, and I have yet to hear about an accidental discharge. There may have been some, but in this liberal Nancy state, I'm sure it would have been front page news. I'm sure there is a statistical chance it will happen, just as there is a chance I will get hit by a meteorite. It sounds to me like your friend either has a fear of firearms, or a bias against "plastic" guns, or most likely, both.



I agree Jeff and yes he has a bias against anything he doesn't personaly aprove of, particularly "plastic" guns. And noooo, he's not a firend, just a know it all on another forum that seems to think his choice of a firearm should be everybodies choice. :rolleyes:

#8 PA RIDGE RUNNER

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 05:31 PM

There is at least one or more of those type everywhere you look. From what it looks like there will be a few more walking the streets from the elections and the way it looks the conservatives are winning.
If God had a refrigerator would your picture be on it.
Remember the Ark was built by amateurs, the titanic by professionals.

#9 TerryfromAR

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 07:47 PM

Norm, some folks always have to be right... Most of the time I just nod and go on.... Personally I think there are ALOT of good firearms out there. I have had quite a bit of training both from my father, and from the Marines on carrying and firing firearms of varying styles shapes and sizes. The basic rules stay the same. Don't aim at anything you don't intend to shoot, keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you are ready to fire, and keep positive muzzle control. No matter what the firearm, basic firearm safety should be respected due to the fact that SAFETIES FAIL!!! No matter the manufacturer, composite firearm or all metal, mechanical failures occur. Your know-it-all counter-part needs to realize it doesn't matter weather it's a Springfield Armory all metal pistol or a Hi-point all composite pistol, any pistol(firearm) can have a "negligent discharge". It's up to the person handling said firearm to exercise the control over the weapon to prevent any loss of life or injury to persons or property.
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