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No Firearms Allowed?


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#1 Spirithawk

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 06:46 PM

So, you have a Concealed Carry Permit and the buiseness you wish to go into has a " NO FIREARMS ALLOWED" sign? Don't like the idea of having to disarm yourself and put yourself at risk just to be allowed to go inside? Want to let them know your feelings about it withou raising a fuss? Well here's my answer for ya! Feel free to copy and print, I made mine as buiseness card size, and just tape one to the glass next to their "NO FIREARMS ALLOWED" sign. :D

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#2 mudduck

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 07:41 PM

Thats a good Idea. In Minnesota, I ignore all signs and just carry. In a store that is posted/signed, they must by law inform you personally that guns are not allowed. Failure to leave will cost you 25 bucks but will not affect your permit. Minnesota also has specific language about how and where a sign must be, and what it must say, most signs do not follow the legal requirements. But again, even if it did, Ignoring it, and ignoring requests to leave, will only cost 25 bucks. Again, this is in Minnesota, different states,different rules I suppose. Winter time is great for concealed carry in Minnesota, With all the coats, the question isnt if I carry, but rather, how many? lol

#3 Jeremiah

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 08:05 PM

...I ignore all signs and just carry...


I would do the same.
I've only ever seen one such sign though... on a Toys-R-Us store. They have nothing I want inside.
But, if ever I did see one on a store I wished to enter, I would imagine the only way they would ever know any better is if they have metal detectors and/or they're doing pat-downs.

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#4 Spirithawk

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 08:56 PM

I too just keep my mouth shut and don't advertise I'm carrying but there is a risk;

In Missouri you can be removed from the premises if caught and if a police officer is called upon the first offense, you can be fined up to $100
If within six months a second offense occurs, you can be fined up to $200 and your permit can be suspended for one year
if within one year of the first offense a third citation is issued for a like offense, you can be fined $500 and your permit revoked. Plus you won't be eligible for a new permit for a period of three years.

The key is making sure your weapon is concealed well and stays that way. For instance if it's on your belt you need to be careful reaching for things up high or bending over where your jacket, coat or shirt might ride up exsposing your weapon to anyone looking your way. A simple slip up could get costly. The point of the card is to let the buiseness owners know while they have the right to post "NO WEAPONS" you have the right to shop elsewhere and their narrow views is costing them law abiding customers and money. If we don't voice our opinions then the places posted will definately grow in numbers as self righteous, misinformed, anti gun people thumb their noses at we with CCW Permits. A while back a misinformed salesperson at Wal Mart told me I couldn't carry in Wal Mart. He'd asked if I was carrying when I asked to buy cartridges and I saw no reason to lie to him. After his being corrected by both me and the store manager I made it a point to inform him that the time people get robbed, and worse, was when they were walking from their vehicle to his place of work and when walking back out to their cars. Kinda hard to protect yourself when the firearm you are legaly licensed to carry is locked inside your car! He sheepishly agreed!

#5 mudduck

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 03:23 PM

When Minnesota first started issuing Carry permits, I would say that about 90% of businesses posted signs on their doors, now, the only 2 places I have recently seen that were still posted were the Mall of America and a hospital that i visited. The hospital sign seemed to meet the legal requirements of Minnesota law, while the signs at the Mall of America did not. So the trend here, at least so far, was for businesses to remove their gun ban signs. Only the gang bangers and thugs are supposed to carry at the Mall, they had an amusement area there called Camp Snoopy, locals called it Camp Shoot me, because of the gang violence associated with the place.

#6 TerryfromAR

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 07:18 PM

Hmmmnm I'll have to look around here.... Never paid attention to whether the CCW permit holders are discriminated against. Ofcourse a hospital I can probably see it..... Walmart, atleast here, when you buy a gun, they walk you out the door with it.... A manager actually carries the gun out of the store for you, and then hands it to you outside the door.....
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#7 Spirithawk

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 07:39 PM

Here's a thought; By putting up " No Firearms Allowed" signs a buiseness is basicly telling you it's safe to do buiseness on their property.....unarmed! Soooo, lets say you get mugged on said property. Wouldn't that open the buiseness owner to a law suite for failing to protect you after telling you he won't allow you to protect yourself? Wonder if that ever crossed their minds?

#8 timothy

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Posted 22 January 2011 - 11:50 AM

I havnt taken the time to get mine, but in utahits legal to open carry. I carry my full size s&w 1911 on my side for all too see. I am carful where i do carry though, i have not carried it openly in walmart, or the mall places like that. A guy was just issued a public disturbance ticket for marching around a busy mall in salt lake city openly carrying a ar15 and a .45, both unloaded and complying with state laws. but it caused such a commotion they issued him the ticket. It will be people like that that ruin it for the rest of us.

#9 cayugad

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 11:28 PM

I am not sure I like the idea of knowingly ignoring the wishes of the store and entering when you know it is not allowed. And then your plan if discovered is simply play ignorance, technically lie to them, or pay the fine. I can understand your feelings and what you feel are your rights, believe me. But any time you decide to violate the law simply because you disagree with it... To me, your saying... I know the law, and I disagree with your right to forbid my CCW, because they contradict what I want. I just could not do that. I like the idea of the card. And actually that would be a great opportunity to take a card inside, contact a manager, and state your opinion. Believe me, they want your business. I think they might listen.
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#10 mudduck

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 10:17 AM

I am not sure I like the idea of knowingly ignoring the wishes of the store and entering when you know it is not allowed. And then your plan if discovered is simply play ignorance, technically lie to them, or pay the fine. I can understand your feelings and what you feel are your rights, believe me. But any time you decide to violate the law simply because you disagree with it... To me, your saying... I know the law, and I disagree with your right to forbid my CCW, because they contradict what I want

I don't think any part of my "plan" was to plead ignorance. The key is knowing the laws,rules,regulations of your particular state, and any other state that honors your permit, in which you intend to carry. I've asked before to have this website pinned http://www.handgunlaw.us/ as it contains a lot of useful information as pertains to carry/concealed carry. As for "ignoring" signs, In Minnesota, the law is very specific about what is, and is not, a legal posting. Not much of a problem anymore, as one never sees any signs of any type prohibiting firearms. But, every state is different. Hudson,Wi initially had alot of signs the first month, now most have disappeared also

#11 Jeremiah

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 11:07 AM

This is really the heart of the issue. I can't speak to other states, but in my state, there are only a handful of places that are actually on the books as being prohibited from entering with a concealed weapon. These would be places like post offices, court houses, schools, etc. I'll obviously be looking into this again to be certain, but I'm not sure that a retail store, for example, in my state has the "legal right" to prohibit their patrons from exercising their state & federally recognized right to carry with a proper permit.
(Request... sure. They can request that all patrons wear pink dresses if they wish. It's a request. But, outright prohibit... Don't know about that.)

=======

Update: A five minute search turned up the following for me...

The state of Pennsylvania does not prohibit carry in any establishment, whether it be a family restaurant, bar, or club, but it does prohibit carry in Primary and Secondary Schools and their Property and Court Houses.

Not that I don't trust the Internet to be the end-all, be-all in such matters ( Posted Image ), but I will be consulting my PA gun law manual to confirm this. (Though I'm almost positive I've read it in there before, thus my general lack of concern for signs posted on store windows.) Obviously, every state is different. So, all should do their own checking.

Edited by Jeremiah, 11 February 2012 - 01:20 PM.
: Information Update

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#12 Spirithawk

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 12:41 PM

Here in Missouri any property owner has the right to post his property "No Firearms or Weapons Allowed". I feel that is their right, but where buisenesses are concerned, I exercise my right too. I inform them that should someone decide to rob them they and anyone in there buiseness, or anyone walking to and from their vehicles, are helpless victoms. Just the kind of people that criminals prefer and seek out each and every day in even the best of neighborhoods. I also inform them that simply cooperating with a criminal does not always mean you'll live to report the crime and that I prefer not to be a helpless victom. I did not pass very thorough and extensive background checks, pay hefty fees for classes and said background checks, get fingerprinted, nor research and buy a suitable firearm for self defense, all to just leave my firearm in the car or at home! I, and an increasingly large number of folks just like me who have permits to legally carry, will simply choose to take our buiseness elswhere!

Here it's illegal to carry in hospitals, schools, any government building be it state or Federal, ect. It's a missdemeaner if caught and a police officer is called. You can be fined and if it happens 3 times you lose your permit to carry.

Edited by Spirithawk, 11 February 2012 - 12:44 PM.


#13 TerryfromAR

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 06:08 PM

THIS is what I LOVE about this board..... A subject that would have heated up and had profanities flying everywhere on 99% of the boards out there, is being discussed calmly and rationally and people are making valid points from every direction. THAT is what sets HR apart from most of the boards on the web. Thank you for your time.

Personally if I had a CCW permit, and I saw a business didn't want me carrying my firearm there, I wouldn't shop there. On the flip side, I can't conceal and carry on my job and I go to some very unsavory neighborhoods all times of day and night. Never really had a problem, and hope I never do, but if the situation arises I hope it goes well for me.
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