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Ccw Permit Holder Shoots Mugger


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#1 mudduck

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Posted 21 October 2011 - 03:39 PM

Mpls. Police: 'Good Samaritan' Fatally Shoots Robbery SuspectPosted ImageMinneapolis Police say a man who witnessed a 53-year-old woman being robbed and pistol-whipped, shot and killed her attacker.

Authorities say the armed robber confronted the woman in the parking lot of Cub Foods on the 2800 block of 26th Avenue South Thursday at about 10 p.m. The 23-year-old suspect allegedly took her purse and hit her in the head with his gun.

A man who witnessed the robbery chased the suspect and shot him. Investigators say they found his gun near where the shooting took place.

When police arrived, the witness told officers he had a permit to carry a gun and that he had shot the armed robbery suspect during a confrontation outside a nearby restaurant. He told officers where they could find his handgun. He was detained for questioning and was later released. Police say the man is a suspect in the criminal investigation, but they are strongly looking at this shooting as self defense. The Hennepin County Attorney's Office will decide if charges should be filed.

Police are working with businesses to get surveillance video. They are also talking to five witnesses who are listed on the police report." I am very interested in how this turns out. This happened Oct.20th(last night around 10 p.m.) Details are still sketchy of course. I'm thinking the witness stepped into a "gray" area when he pursued the attackers and confronted them. Should be very interesting, will post more details as they come out. Can you do this in your State? What do you think?



#2 PA RIDGE RUNNER

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Posted 21 October 2011 - 06:58 PM

I think you are right it is a gray area. I would not have gone after him as it is not a ccw permit holders responsibility to engage in a pursuit. He was not in danger and should have left well enough alone.
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#3 mudduck

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Posted 22 October 2011 - 07:10 AM

http://www.twincitie...8598?source=rss Some more of the story. I'm thinking the Lawyers will get rich arguing this one,lol

#4 Whitetiger

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Posted 22 October 2011 - 07:30 AM

Since he chased him I think he shot himself in the foot (figuratively speeking). If he'd had shot him on sight with a warning first, then it'd be justifiable because the other persons life was in iminent danger. I say with a warning because the guy was busy pistol whipping someone & he had time to take aim before the other guy could return fire. While we do have the right & duty to defend someone who cant defend themselves, we are not police & cant go charging after an assailant & still claim self defense. When I was in business school (1994), I had to do a 15 min speech in business law on any legal topic I wanted. I wanted to do it on your rights in a self defense situation since I was heavily into martial arts at the time. OMG, grey zone should be a black hole zone here in PA, as I could only find 5 minutes worth of material. The rest of the time, I spent doing self defense demonstrations with my shifu. From what little info I could find at the public library, it all boils down to, doing the minimum required to stop the aggressor, anymore would make the roles reverse & makes you the attacker. If he turns & flees, its over, you cant attack him.

I used to read in black belt magazine, how one guy was stabbed, the victim broke the attackers arm & was sues for medical expenses. Another guy had a gun & the victim killed the gunman & the gunman's family sued & won on a wrongful death lawsuit. I can hear that ones family in court saying but your honor, my baby was a kind hearted boy, he wasnt gonna pull the trigger of the gun he had to that other guys head...honest.

other issues with self defense shooting arrises like you cant shoot him in the back. Try convincing to a jury (who doesnt want to be there no less have a clue about being in a combat situation), was the attacker running away from the victim who also had a gun or just running for cover to fire from?

Edited by Whitetiger, 22 October 2011 - 07:45 AM.


#5 mudduck

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Posted 22 October 2011 - 07:42 AM

I know different states have different laws. One course I took here on handgun law in Minnesota was taught by 2 lawyers, both of whom were pro gun. Both agreed that the use of a firearm, rightfully or wrong, the legal tab starts at ten grand, and goes up from there. Morally right and legaly right can be different. state law and the courts generally look at four elements to determine whether a case is self-defense:

-- Whether the person was a "reluctant participant" and took steps to avoid the conflict.

-- Whether the person had a reasonable fear of immediate death or bodily harm.

-- Whether the person was faced with deadly force. -- Whether retreat was impractical.



#6 Rowdy Yates

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 11:18 AM

Pharmacist found guilty
My thoughts are pretty simple. This sounds like a shooting to retaliate and not self defense. The pharmacist case above crossed that line and he was found guilty. I have no problem shooting in self defense or in defense of another in danger. Just my .02.
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#7 mudduck

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 02:41 PM

The "devil" is in the details here, all of which have not come out yet. IF I were the witness defense atty., I would say" M.y client was pursuing the suspect on foot, in order to get a better description and possible license plate numbers, in order to better aid police in capturing the suspect. At some point during this chase, the suspect fired his weapon at my client, and my client had no other viable option but to return fire". I do wonder if the witness had his gun drawn or holstered during the chase. This story has been great "water cooler" conversation amongst permit holders in Minnesota, and is being watched closely. Again, the full details have not come out yet, I believe the County Atty has the case now and is deciding wether or not to file charges. But, as of now, the Mother of the suspect is calling her son "the victim" so I'm guessing a civil case at the very least.

#8 Spirithawk

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 07:59 PM

I think he had every right to chase the guy. There's no law that says we have to stand idly by watching a crime take place. As to shooting him, he only had that right if the guy turned and pointed his gun at him or someone else. I'd say that was pretty likely. In most places the law states you can only shoot a person if you fear for your life or that of an inocent person. I'm betting any attorney worth his salt will get him off if he should be charged unless they find something that proves beyond a doubt that he fired without cause.

Edited by Spirithawk, 25 October 2011 - 08:05 PM.


#9 mudduck

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 05:10 PM

MINNEAPOLIS (WCCO) — The sister of a man shot and killed by a Good Samaritan earlier this month has been charged with aggravated robbery.

Police also said they are not pressing any charges against the man who killed 23-year-old Darren Lamont Evanovich.

According to the criminal complaint, 20-year-old Octavia Shonte Marberry, who is Evanovich’s sister, was involved in a series of parking lot robberies around the Twin Cities leading up to the Oct. 20 shooting.

Police say she was identified as being among the group that robbed women in their 50s at the Lake Street Target on Oct. 12 and the 26th Avenue Cub Foods on Oct. 15.

In both cases, she had a knife, and the criminal complaint says told one of the victims she would cut her if she screamed.



The Oct. 20 incident began at the same Cub Foods as the Oct. 15 robbery. Police said a woman was held up and struck over the head with a handgun.A man who saw the incident chased after the robbers and demanded they give back the woman’s purse. Police said Evanovich advanced on the man, who, fearing for his life, shot Evanovich.

Police said Marberry was by Evanovich’s body when they arrived. She was taken into custody.

The man told police he had a permit to carry a handgun and said where his gun could be found.

The criminal complaint says that surveillance shows Marberry making transactions with the credit cards stolen in previous robbery incidents.

She has been charged with two felony counts of first-degree aggravated robbery.

Police announced they do not intend to press charges against the man who shot and killed Evanovich, saying he acted in self-defense. They did not identify the man.

Since permits to carry handguns were allowed in Minnesota in 2005, there were four lawful and justifiable shootings by permit holders.

According to the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension, there are 88,350 active permits to carry handguns in Minnesota. Fifty-eight of those permits have been revoked, and only one person has been convicted of using a conceal-and-carry gun in a homicide.



#10 PA RIDGE RUNNER

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 06:59 PM

Once the facts are known it sheds a different light on the incident.
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#11 Spirithawk

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 10:11 AM

Having a CCW Permit doesn't make you a cop but it does enhance your ability to defend yourself with a firearm. Criminals should be afraid, very afraid as they don't know who is carrying! Here localy, a 68 year old lady recently came home to find a strange pickup truck parked in her driveway. Entering her home she was confronted by an armed man who said he had a gun and was going to shoot her. She replied that she had a gun too! ( She had a CCW Permit) So saying she drew her pistol and shot the intruder. I'm very Pro-carry. I don't care how nice an area you live in crime happens everywhere and how many times have you heard, " I can't believe it happened here! " ? I concider my permit and firearms as life insurance and my 9mm is like an American Express card. I never leave home without it. ;)

#12 cayugad

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 08:54 AM

Pharmacist found guilty My thoughts are pretty simple. This sounds like a shooting to retaliate and not self defense. The pharmacist case above crossed that line and he was found guilty. I have no problem shooting in self defense or in defense of another in danger. Just my .02.


Wow... that one is a no brainier. He should have left well enough alone after the first shot. But the problem still is the court system and the way justice flows in this country. You can bet, had the robber survived.. he'd of sued the pharmacist, or the family would have sued him.. As my range officer used to say.. A dead man makes a poor witness in court. And I know that is not right, but that was the justification for shooting center mass instead of trying to wound.
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#13 cayugad

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 09:00 AM

In mud duck's case, I think he's right. The devil is the details. I am guessing that a court would probably rule that his pursuit of the attacker and then firing on him was wrong as once the attacker left the scene of the crime, the threat or need of deadly force left with him. Personally only a fool chases an armed robber unless he is law enforcement, Once the threat is gone, the need for force is gone.

One reason when Wisconsin was so hot on this CCW I mentioned it might be a good idea to get an umbrella policy for personal liability law suits should you decided to carry. The good Samaritan thing only goes so far.
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, a total wreck with a big smile on your face."




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