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#1 Spirithawk

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Posted 02 August 2006 - 07:29 AM

In the Knight M-85 .54 cal, with the #11 nipple, which would be better to use pellets or loose powder? I'm leaning towards trying the American Pioneer Brand Powder since I found Bass Pro carries it.

#2 PA RIDGE RUNNER

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Posted 03 August 2006 - 12:08 PM

Norm I just received a muzzleloading manual for free from Hodgdon. They make both 777 and Pyrodex. Go to Hodgdon online you can order both the muzzleloader and the smokeless powder booklets for free and will receive them in just a couple of days.

I do not know if I can remain diplomatic in my reply as I am no fan of pellets or of American Pioneeer powder but I will try.

First On the first page of the Hodgdon manual they did a granular powder comparison. They used 100 grains by volume of each powder and the same bullet sabot combo. 777 FFg powder's velocity was 1811 average. Pyrodex RS was clocked at 1730. Goex FFg was 1619. American pioneer ??granulation only got 1520. They do not say whether or not they used a true 100 gr by volume of 777 or the equivelant of 100 gr of the others. 777 is a more powerful powder. About 15 % more so to get the equivelant of 100 gr of black powder you would only use 85 gr of 777. If they used a full 100 gr of 777 naturally it would skew the results in favor of 777 because you are using 15% more powder power than the others. What the chart does show is just what I found when trying American Pioneer powder in a sidelock percussion. I used the FFg (read river gravel) and although I do not have a chronograph the perceived recoil was noticably lighter. My pattern was about two inches lower than Black powder further indicating less power with APP. I also was not pleased with a #11 cap being capable of good consistant ignition.

Second I just called RMC sports and they just told me American Pioneer does not make 54 cal pellets. The Hodgdon manual does not list 54 cal pellets in 777. Pyrodex does make a 54 cal pellet but only in 60 gr size so loads with Pyrodex pellets are limited to 60 or possibly 120 gr.

Third, pellets are more expensive than loose powder.

Fourth. Even with 30 and 50 gr pellets there are not many combos of powder weight. With the less expensive loose powder you have any charge weight you want.

Fifth Even if you could use 777 pellets they are designed for the shotgun 209 primers as an ignition source.

If you want to play with some FFg regular APP I have some that I believe is still good and could bring it along.
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#3 Spirithawk

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Posted 03 August 2006 - 06:17 PM

Thanks Paul. No advice like that of some one with exsperience. I,ve got some Pyrodex I need to use up so I'll try it first, I'd like to try the APP only because of the claim of it being so clean burning which would be a plus when in the field. i traded a T/C Renegade for this Knight M-85 which looks like it's never been fired. I've been waiting for this heat to break and for Jason to get some time off to go out and sight it in. I've just got it bore sighted at this time. Don't know why but I was really drawn to it and did'nt hesitate at all to trade for it.

#4 PA RIDGE RUNNER

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Posted 03 August 2006 - 07:37 PM

If I have room in the black powder box I will just toss that can of app in if it hasn't drawn moisture. Your MK 85 is very nearly the same as my bighorn cept mine is a little 50 cal. I use Gooex in mine and can reload at least once without cleaning. I carry several alcohol patches in a film canister and some dry ones in another. That takes care of cleaning in the field if I have time.
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#5 cayugad

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Posted 03 August 2006 - 09:09 PM

In the Knight M-85 .54 cal, with the #11 nipple, which would be better to use pellets or loose powder? I'm leaning towards trying the American Pioneer Brand Powder since I found Bass Pro carries it.

The Knight MK-85 was invented long before the concept of the pellet was around. With the #11 nipple, you need to shoot loose powder. Pellets while made of very explosive components, still require a good source of flame to properly ignite the pellet completely and efficiently.

Now the APP powder will shoot fine out of your rifle, but you might find that any heavy projectiles of 300 + grain or conicals, will not produce good accuracy. Of course all rifles are different, so your experiences might vary.

Actually when the MK-85 was designed in 1985 by Tony Knight, at that time the two powder used and tested for the best accuracy were Goex and Pyrodex. You will find that Goex or Pyrodex while dirty and fowling will produce excellent long range accuracy...

I would suggest a RWS 10-75 #11 cap or CCI Magnum #11 cap. I would also suggest a Goex 2f powder and a 300 grain projectile. I think you will get some excellent results and be most impressed with the power of the .54 caliber.
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#6 Spirithawk

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Posted 04 August 2006 - 10:51 AM

Again, thanks for the advice. I'll put it to use.




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